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sharpgambler wrote:That’s wrong of course.
A person from the UK with a site in the UK, have the laws of UK and not US laws. If it is wrong to gamble in the US, it isn’t in UK. So the site respects the law. That person does not have to block access from anyone.
Yah I guess thats why Louisiana has all those warrants for people NOT residing in the US. Were talking about the US goverment do you really think they care about any one elses laws but their own?
and that’s why they are out now. Do you think Brittish government had nothing to do with the fact they were freed?
Do you really think I have to read the law of all countries even if my business is outside?
Here is something in line with what I’ve been trying to say – a statement from Planet Poker:
Planet Poker is located and operated in Curacao which is part of the Netherlands Antilles. Planet Poker does not have ownership or operations in the USA. Planet Poker has a fully authorized gaming operation license issued by the Curacao government. All aspects of operations and business conduct are endorsed and sanctioned by the Curacao government. Any bets placed by you are received and processed by Planet Poker in Curacao where accepting your bet is fully legal under Planet Poker’s license. Customer records are held confidentially by Planet Poker, not the Curacao government.
Well but I do understand your point concerning that US thinks they are law to the world and act like that.
What is really important is to find solutions because we all will lose a great share of market.
And hosting websites outside US is a good starting point.again well stated Filipe!
sharpgambler wrote:Well but I do understand your point concerning that US thinks they are law to the world and act like that.for us UK folk there is a concerning treaty we have with the US on extradition….
basically the US can demand anyone for extradition for suspected crimes (with no evidence), (good old anti-terror law in effect)
see the below as a case example
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4650543.stm
there is a concern that the US could use the treaty to extradite UK based gaming execs to the US
lol – only if they’re terrorists!
owldeath2 wrote:lol – only if they’re terrorists!
wish it were so…..http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4578761.stm
that’s the same anti-terror extradition law appiled to a civial case
still laughing?
Oh well, another country to avoid eh!
But then, fraud is a crime in every country – gambling isn’t.
Hey mate calm down. UK would not extradict a person for something that it’s not a crime in UK, even if it is in US.
I can also add that, even if it was ilegal in UK, but not a crime, so, only subject to fines and to a civil action, the Governement would not extradite you to other country where it is a real crime. This is a human rights question, and I think you can consult a lawyer in your country to ask that.
As online gambling is not ilegal in UK, the UK governement would never extradict a own citizen to US, even in the case that citizen has commited a crime in US, by advertizing directly and having assets in US.
Gambling is allowed in Britain, so you can have an affiliate website. Because the internet is global, there is nothing that prevents a US citizen goes into your website and starts playing at a casino. You cannot be charged for that in the US, because you don’t have any assets or operations within US territory. Your business does not have anything to do with that country and the rules that apply to you are not theirs. You are not promoting gambling inside US.
Do you think coffe shops at Holland block Americans to enter. And do you think Holland governement would extradite the coffee shop owner, because it’s ilegal to consume drugs in the US. In Rome, Romans are in charge.
The main question here is defining very well where your service is located and to which rules you must stick. If you’re based in the UK and have a site in the UK, there is anything ilegal in your behaviour.
I think the best thing to do is to be based on a country where the rules about online gambling are in favor, establish a business, target players only from countries where gambling is allowed if you prefer, but do not worry about US players. If they visit your site, you cannot be responsible for that.
From what I have seen recently there is a misunderstanding of law concepts and applicability of a territory law. It is always difficult to understand the exact local a service is offered on the internet and that’s why sometimes we don’t know very well which law to apply.
We must be well informed and know which law is applicable to us. Just because US is a large country, it does not mean that an UK citizen must live in the shadow of the law they try to apply to the universe. US does not respect any international treaties, does not respect WTO rules, and always try to apply their own laws to the universe. I think that is not correct, and that’s why help from European lawyers and professionals is needed, not because of the gambling bill but because of all the applicability and implications of US laws.
The recent bill is all based in the ilegality of transactions. I think this is because that is the last point they can go to. After that there are companies based outside US that stick on other jurisdictions. Stoping the money to flow solves the problem within the country.
You may all disagree with me, but I’m here to listen to other point of views, and just trying to add my understanding of this.
I have not really kept up to date with my gambling sites (been busy with other online projects). Don’t know if the question has been asked, but:
If you display any banners with $ signs on them, or you refer to $ in your content, can that be used against you to imply that you have marketed to the US market?
I guess you can argue that your content refers to Australian Dollars or New Zealand Dollars or any of the 100 other countries that uses their own Dollars as currency.
So I guess I am only really worried about the banners. What do you all think?
BTW, I am based in the UK, with UK hosting. I don’t specifically mention Americans or the US anywhere on my site, so the banners is the only place where they can have a case against me.
sharpgambler wrote:and that’s why they are out now. Do you think Brittish government had nothing to do with the fact they were freed?Do you really think I have to read the law of all countries even if my business is outside?
Here is something in line with what I’ve been trying to say – a statement from Planet Poker:
Planet Poker is located and operated in Curacao which is part of the Netherlands Antilles. Planet Poker does not have ownership or operations in the USA. Planet Poker has a fully authorized gaming operation license issued by the Curacao government. All aspects of operations and business conduct are endorsed and sanctioned by the Curacao government. Any bets placed by you are received and processed by Planet Poker in Curacao where accepting your bet is fully legal under Planet Poker’s license. Customer records are held confidentially by Planet Poker, not the Curacao government.
Well but I do understand your point concerning that US thinks they are law to the world and act like that.
What is really important is to find solutions because we all will lose a great share of market.
And hosting websites outside US is a good starting point.That is such a naive statement. Really, to play the “we are not subject to US law” card is laughable. They clearly haven’t read the act, least taken an opinion.
Let’s see, who should we take seriously.
The behemoth called Planet Poker
or that little company called Party Poker who are willing to forego 50% of its livelihood.
I can understand that some are taking this approach, and I am thankful that many do (and hope they continue to do so), but to tell us all is well becuase they aren’t in the US is laughable.
>> 1. For whom is hosting in the US, do you think it’s time to change to outside?
i am not U.S., but i host in U.S.
i am not sure too,
please adviseI was in the pub the other day in London with a mate and the Saudi religious police came in and took him back to stand trial in Saudia Arabia because when he was over there a few years ago he had a gin and tonic and peeked at Worldsex for a couple of minutes.
Hi Guys,
I have a website hosted in the U.S, I picked up a new one at the U.K,
I’ve changed the U.S site to just redirect to the U.K website.
Is this against the new law?
Thanks
Not subject to US law…
I dont pretend to know the law – because I dont! – but, you can do things to make it harder for people to get to your information. You may be outside someone elses country, but the “treaties” between countries may allow the US to prosecute you.
Sometimes I think, the best thing for non US affiliates to do is, at least place a disclaimer at the bottom of your site (or the frontpage… much like an adult site) once the bill gets signed saying that the “US citizens are not allowed to play at any of the online casinos listed.”
After that, what your traffic does is up to them.
I am not trying to scare anyone here, but this is an extreme case and personal experience of a colleague of mine. He is based in NZ and holds a NZ passport. He hosted in the US, through a US registrar. The domain was .com.
He promoted something he shouldnt have, it defamed someone – he didnt know, it was content given by someone else. *honestly*
The lawyers of the person defamed, sent him court documents trying to take him to court.
Lawyers got involved – and being hauled into court became a reality. His lawyer suggested he take it seriously… as my colleague put it “they are coming after me and my assets.” Was he stressed… yes. In the end they were actually going after him hard, only to scare him into submission. But yes court was a reality.
They were able to contact and subponea the records of the domain registrar in the US and obtain the details of the person who reigstered the offending domain.
My colleague said, if he had registared the domain with a non US registrar, he would have been fine.
“the best thing for non US affiliates to do is, at least place a disclaimer at the bottom of your site (or the frontpage… much like an adult site) once the bill gets signed saying that the “US citizens are not allowed to play at any of the online casinos listed.”
I will do no such thing. However I will have a disclaimer saying, American players will always be welcome here, although your president is an utter cunt.
