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It surely would have made a lot more sense to send a mail to each affiliate with a link to the claim form.
@Dominique 213537 wrote:
It surely would have made a lot more sense to send a mail to each affiliate with a link to the claim form.
Yes that would be the right thing to do, but that would cost GP more money, so I guess they avoid anything that costs them more.
I have a question, how does eCOGRA look in this situation, a hero, a lame duck, or a slimy organization that butters their bread on both sides?
1. Lame duck because they took so long and did not act on their own accord.
2. Hero because they are doing something about the situation.
3. Slimy, because they sit in the GP camp and list their casinos as “reputable gaming sites” while at the same time sit in the Affiliate camp.Mark my words.
So many claims are going to be rejected as they are asking for information that is hard to get hold of. That form is stupid, all that should be required is my affiliate ID, name and address at most.
Read the sign up contract of any affilaite program, and you will see that you have no right at all. A program can cancel your affiliation at anytime, with no further compensation. I one program, I made 25000 euros revshare in one year, they decrease my comission to 10 % for new client, I did not send anymore clients, and then they say the will close my account if I did not promote then with the 10 % comission. Even with cpa you are not safe. In one very well know casino, I had a very big winner (20 000$), and they just decide to no pay my cpa (4000$) because my clients were “bad” and that was after one year of working with them, and eraning 40 000 $ in cpa comission. The only think you can do is treathen them to send a email to your database a put and big banner on your web saying “Casino x don’t pay”. It is generally enought to make them backoff…of course if the company is disolved, it does not work
CPA is always an iffy business – one party always wins and one party loses. If the casino is super happy with you, you know you would make a lot more money on rev share. If the casino loses, it will sever the CPA.
REV share is a bit different.
But either way, the clause you quote would not hold up in any court, it is not intended to apply to comission payment contracts but to service contracts regarding the use of software by subscribers. The casinos just plucked it off the net and stuck it in their contracts, but it isn’t applicable at all.
If the contract says “lifetime comissions” then that is what the program is contractually liable for.
If the program cannot pay, it needs to reach out and arrive at a mutual agreement with it’s affiliates. Contracts can only be changed if both parties agree to the change.
Nobluff, I submitted a claim and received a response that it was being processed, even though I had no dates, $ amounts or aff tracker filled in. I can’t very well fill these in without accessing the aff site, and that is off line.
eCOGRA is aware of that apparently and will process claims anyway.
It is quite teorical, you are probably form US where you go to court everyday. Do you read the contract when you sign up ?, do your print it ?, When you enter in a hurry in your account and they say before accessing click here to agree with contractual change ? do you read them en print them ? Most affiliate don’t. And even if you do, it must be big bucks to go to court and most affiliates program are based in remote location…
I always prefer cpa, because I have more guarantee to get your money, and also it is more logical, I get pay to bring the client, it is job of casino to make them deposit. If casino make a good job and make a lot of money, good for him, this is the rewards for his good job. But when you are on revshare and the casino don’t do a good job, you make little money and you can not even help as they don’t give you your client listing, so with revshare you are 100 % in the good willing of the casino to do is job, and let me tell you that some do a very loosy job.
Also, you have to be filosofical and don’t expect to get more than 70 % of you should really have. Between misktake reporting, client who click in your link in his office and open a account directly to the casino at home, tecnical problem, casino who don’t pay you… you will probably loose 30 % of your income. Just ask you the question if what you get is worth the work you do.
To end up on a filosical note, when you have a problem with a casino, just wait for the next affiliate account executive rotation, it generally don’t take more than a year, the next one is likely to a friend who was your account manager in a another program and are ready to improve your deal.
@Dominique 213669 wrote:
Nobluff, I submitted a claim and received a response that it was being processed, even though I had no dates, $ amounts or aff tracker filled in. I can’t very well fill these in without accessing the aff site, and that is off line.
eCOGRA is aware of that apparently and will process claims anyway.
Thats a relief as I also can not remember the numbers. I have yet to receive a confirmation from eCOGRA, how long did yours take?
@MrProno 213670 wrote:
Do you read the contract when you sign up ?, do your print it ?, When you enter in a hurry in your account and they say before accessing click here to agree with contractual change ? do you read them en print them ? Most affiliate don’t.
Thankfully you don’t need to. You can go to Casino Affiliate Forums and scroll down past the forum and you’ll see all the T&Cs of the listed programs evaluated and recommended, not recomended, rogued and everything in between.
Now, I have been doing this for some 9 years, and I can tell you that on CPA I would make but a small fraction of what I make now.
CPA is good to get on one’s feet, for some quick working capital, but in the long term it is not a profitable thing.
@MrProno 213670 wrote:
I always prefer cpa, because I have more guarantee to get your money, and also it is more logical, I get pay to bring the client, it is job of casino to make them deposit.
1. This is not a thread about rev share or CPA, its a thread about a affiliate program that ripped off a lot of affiliates. The only reason something is being done about it, is that there are a lot of affiliates that have been affected, so there is strength in numbers.
2. Your theory of CPA is flawed, as the CPA stands for Cost Per Action, and the Action part is the client making a deposit, so if there is no deposit, there is no pay. Anyway, as mentioned this is a topic for another thread, as this is the thread about GP affiliates hopefully getting some type of closure.
I have filled in the form 5 times since yesterday and each time I get a message, ” Send failure”.
also, the “btag” thing they request is a bunch of bull as even they should know, each individual property has it’s own btag. How many properties do these j/o’s have? Anywho, how many affiliates have immediate access to ALL of GP’s btags??
Maybe I am a dumb ass but mostly, I TRUST my affiliate programs and the only thing I know is my log in. I don’t think I am alone.If I sounf ongrateful, please understand, I am not. Anything would help right now. I have been out of the bizso to speak for many months. Probbly more like a year. Been looking for a “real job” as this biz doesn’t keep me in tp!
Well at least somthing is happening now. – better then nothing for sure
However the right thing would be to simply send the money instead of asking the affiliates to claime the money they already earned once. The form is way too complicated on purpose – they know exactly down to the penny how much they owe us and when they send money to us for the last time.
@more4me 213677 wrote:
also, the “btag” thing they request is a bunch of bull as even they should know, each individual property has it’s own btag. How many properties do these j/o’s have? Anywho, how many affiliates have immediate access to ALL of GP’s btags??
Maybe I am a dumb ass but mostly, I TRUST my affiliate programs and the only thing I know is my log in. I don’t think I am alone.I presumed they only need 1 banner tag from which they can extract your affy ref number…
Fortunately I did have a record of mine – I used to put them all on an Excel spreadsheet – before I got lazy!
I could have found it anyway – I take regular back-up copies of my websites, so I could get it from there.Form submitted, for what it’s worth.
I reckon the only reason Grand Prive have gone this route is because of all the pressure from the affiliate community – well done everyone who black-listed them! :hattip:KK
From what I can tell your claim will be processed even if you don’t have the aff tag, date of last payment and amount of last payment.
Wow haven’t been here in a while – I’d forgotten my password!
It’s nice to see some activity again particularly on this subject.
I filled out the claim form but well to be fair, we can’t see everything that Microgaming and Grand Prive can see and I’m sure as hell they dropped or mis-mapped a bunch of my btags when they moved from the older ‘Referspot’ to Grand Prive.
I wondered what triggered Grand Prive to start communicating at all about it and I can only think it’s because of all the bad pages they now have dis-crediting them that perhaps it’s starting to hurt them now and that this is one way of starting to reduce that.
From my point of view, if the casinos can still afford to operate then regardless of T&C’s – the RIGHT and REPUTABLE thing to do would be to bring the affiliate program back online, pay up all the commissions that would havve been earned and then try to re-build trust with the affiliates they annoyed so badly.
Of course based on their past activities, I wouldn’t really be surprised if someone has been working in the background re-tagging, re-mapping stuff for those affiliates that have spoken out against them so that even if they did bring their program back online – things in the back-end would have been rigged to look like they’re paying out fully on historical but probably not really doing so lol.
Can’t help but be cynical about them really, but if they do make up financially for losses I guess that would the only start.
I could find my last payment and date as I’ve had statsremote for years and this has all my history for all my gambling affiliate programs (definitely a handy tool for looking back), but like others said – getting all the tags without the program being up is pretty much impossible as I’ve removed all the links I had and backups that far back have since been overwritten with more recent ones.
I look forward to see what happens next!
eCOGRA PRESS RELEASE
PROGRESS REPORT : GRAND PRIVÉ AFFILIATES PROGRAM INVESTIGATION
17 December 2009 – The audit team continues to receive and assess claims in connection with the the above and the investigation is on track.
The eCOGRA team has noted affiliate concerns regarding the lack of communications reach of affiliate representative bodies and webmasters, and Grand Privé management has consequently decided the following:
1. That the communications exercise be expanded by emailing all affiliates who had active players on the Program’s records during the 3 months prior to 1 December 2008 when the Program closed;
2. That the deadline for submission of claims be extended to 31st December 2009.
Our mandate has therefore been amended accordingly, and the expanded communications exercise has commenced. Our investigation will also include confirming the accuracy and completeness of the database list of emails used in the expanded communications exercise.
