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My guideline is that I expect 1 real depositor per each 17-25 downloands, once you have this after a few ’00 of players you can preety much guess how much a player is worth in that casino
In my mind this is the only statistics which I can really use.
/Janet
I never believe what an affiliate manager quotes as a conversion rate because they will only quote whatever number is best at that time or simply inflate the numbers.
The only value i can see from asking them this question is if they give you an unbelivably high rate then you can bet they are highly unbelivable themselves.
B
Excellent Point Islandmaan
Kind of an exageration scale to judge overall honesty. I am going to employ this one in the future.
That’s a simple and blunt way of putting it
I’m not so much worried about what propaganda any one group is spreading I’m curious as to how everyone determines conversion percentages.
Janet has stated she considers shell get 1 join in every 21 downloads (average.) That would be roughly 5% conversion on just downloads. If she was getting an equal conversion ratio for clicks to downloads, based on that 21 downloads she would have sent 420 hits.
So does this 5% conversion from downloads to joins seem on par, and furthermore does this percentage also remain constant for clicks to downloads?
I’m not asking for traffic numbers just conversion percentages.
Hell if some of those inflated percentages we see slung around were just half true in Janets instance shed see an 800% improvement in conversions.
I think this discussion is the MOST benefiting one we had here for a long time …
let me give you my 2c, I do not care about impressions / clicks / what so ever since many casino are putting popups that really changes that number, what I really care if from how many people who were intrested in the casino and showing it by downloading it, had become NOT fun players but REAL depositors.
It can not be checked in a short period of days but at least in a month period where you delivered at least 100K impressions for that casino.
The ration also changes if that is a new casino in town or an old one, so care should be taken when looking at this number.
I would love to see statistics per casino, (which can only be placed by affiliates) of that ratio, for sure it needs to be anonymous and I have no clue how to setup a system for that, maybe the APCW that I joined can report and ask for that number.
/Janet
Coming from an Affiliate Manager stand point, it is very important that you ask each program involved how conversions compare.
There are many ways conversions are calculated, but remember each program will go for the figure which looks best.
1) Clickthroughs divided by number of accounts
2) Clickthroughs divided by number of real depositing accounts
3) Accounts divided by real depositing accountsThe list is endless but at the end of the day the best way to work out conversion is through number two, as this puts a real value on how much you spend to bring players through PPC and other paid mediems and gives you an EPC (estimated price per click) to work off.
Personally I utilize a couple different models and compare the results … hopefully if things are going as one would expect the percentages should be relatively close.
I understand that some individuals utilize casino popups – This undeniably inflates their hit counts and thus for these webmasters to analyze hits to reals wouldn’t be a very useful. I do however think this is the most useful percentage though as you would be able to figure a more precise ROI as Simoneaton alluded to.
Personally I don’t see how popping a casino in the background could be that beneficial – heck more than likely you’ve irritated the hell out of your visitor(s.) That would be another conversion percentage that would need to be assessed via tracking different campaigns.
I believe that some programs may utilize click quotas; that is to say that X amount of traffic is worth a range of earnings Y amount of traffic is worth another range, Z … and so forth – you get the picture. Unless you are sending a specific amount of traffic you will not qualify for anything but a healthy shave.
The objective of this exercise should be to determine an average, a mean, and a median percentage for each casino and thus identify any patterns that may exist among a broad range of affiliates and programs. I don’t think providing a % would be giving away too much info. To say traffic to program A converts at 10% and traffic to program B converts @ 21% doesn’t identify the amount of traffic.
Maybe this is something the APCW can/will/or already is attempting to address.
Hi,
well I figure things from the bottom line up. If that program is making me the most money that month; they’ll get the most traffic.
I think you’ve got to figure it that way because of all the shaving going on. If you can’t trust the stats to figure out who has the best ratio of profit per player, then you’ve got to look at the bottom line. (the exception to this rule is if I have a big winner; I don’t penalize the casino because if they are on the up and up; 90% of the time you’ll get that money back and then some before it’s all said and done).
let me explain about the first part of that paragraph.
at Wagershare I don’t have very good conversion rates. However, the last few months they’ve slowly been working their way up the income earned per month ladder.
Here’s a real scenario I’m now experiencing. These numbers are fabricated examples.
I am sending more traffic to Vegas Partners than WS over the last few months. Now if I got 8 new depositing players at Vegas Partner; and only 1 at Wagershare; but my income at WS was $2k and my income at VP was $500; I’ve got to figure something is up with VP. Especially since this has gone on now for 3 or 4 months. and while I realize that not every player is going to be a whale; if you consider that over those four months that I’ve converted 32 depositing player at VP, and only 4 at WS; and yet I am still making 4 times the money at WS;…..
then I figure I’m better off with a program that has
1.) proven to me that they aren’t going to shave my whales
2.) makes me more money at the end of the month regardless of a much poorer conversion rate than that of VP.assuming that every program shaves or cheats you somehow (not that I’m saying they do); then viewing those two examples; I must come to the conclusion that one is shaving whales and the other is merely shaving players randomly; or otherwise if completely honest; then is seriously lacking in the ability to sell their product.
Either way, I’ll take the incompetent sales-ablility / random shaving of players over the shaving of all my whales any day.
this all is figured if the sending the same quality of traffic, of course.
*************************************to address what Ark said about amount of traffic sent being the way a program judges you:
I get very little traffic in terms of quantity and I imagine that has hurt me with some programs in the past (or may be currently) that doesn’t know what kind of players I am capable of bringing in.
So when they shave me hard the first month because I didn’t send 10k of hits; I take down their links and we never really got a chance to get off the ground …. so to speak. If that’s the case; its probably for the best anyway, because in the end they would have cheated me anyway.
A cheat is a cheat. Aff managers can justify shaving anyway they want to; but in the end they either kept their end of the bargain, or they didn’t.
But I think some aff managers could learn from what I’ve said.
A much better example is a friend who’s very big in the industry. Often she will start out a program with sending traffic from just one spot on her many sites. but from a spot she knows has a good success rate.
If that program screws her; she avoids having to deal with taking down a bunch of links; and more importantly; she knows that if they’ll screw her a little; they’ll screw her a lot; if given a chance.
I hasten to add that another way of doing this is to check with somebody like me who she knows is sending small amounts of quality traffic. I don’t see results then something is funny. Its that simple.
but the thing is; is that the program has no idea how many sites she really has; or that she is very sought-after in the industry by aff managers that DO know what she’s capable of.
And by choosing to shave what they thought was the little guy; they lose out on ……. well I’ll tell you that some programs see well over a 100k a month from her players.
my 2 cents.
Conversion formulas I use are:
Visits / Download – Good gauge for traffic quality
Download / Depositor – Good Gauge for Payment Processing Effectiveness of casino. This one is very important now due to credit card issues.
Visits / Depositor – Establish Per Click Cost you can afford at PPC engines (ROI)
Depositor / Revenue – Player Value Gauge. Also reveals shaving in a hurry if numbers are way out of line for software platform.
Excellent input prof
I think your last point is a very valid one and I have been using this exercise for some time to determine where Im getting hacked to death.
I’m like you bb1 – I dont send but loads of traffic, but what I do send is very high quality. I dont utilize casino popups which infate hit counts, I dont purchase cheap bulk traffic and direct it to the casinos. Maybe this is what we should be doing, I am not certain, but I wouldnt think so.
Hi Guys,
My esperience with Wagershare is globally positive, but i usually have from 100 to 180 download for months but maximum 5 or 6 real players that make a deposit…
Should be caused becouse i have bad kind of traffic….
Waiting any comment…
Marco@islandmaan 4168 wrote:
The only value i can see from asking them this question is if they give you an unbelivably high rate then you can bet they are highly unbelivable themselves.
B
You might be right in what you are saying.. some affiliate managers gives a better prediction than the actual one.. but it does not differ much and on the long run you as affiliate will find it out.. so makes no much sense to not be honest about the conversion rates.
However, I checked your sites… i’m an affiliate coordinator for Big Bet Poker and we are located on the island of Curacao.. if you might be interested.
Cheers,
Melanie
Nice to see that you have started on a thread from 2003
When it comes to conversion for us it is so much that could change that number, we have affiliates with an amazing 58% conversion from signup to deposit down to under 10% for others.
For us it depends from which country the players come from and also what products they are promoting and how they promote. Some forums manage to get a very high conversion, and those that have general forums and send out newsletter to them might get a lot of signups but few depositing clients.
I want to see a signup to deposit % on roughly 20+ % to be ok with it. If it is less we try to increase it, and if an affiliate has higher we try to see what they do to get those numbers.
What is important is the click to signupratio as well, cause if they click on a link to our Casino and then dont sign up, you always wonder what can we do better to actually get them to finish that important step to signup but it is a continuing experimentation to get that perfect.
Cheers
HWe have traffic and need dollars, so, $/click is important – after player click to casino situation is not under our control (Visits / Depositor, signups/depositors, value of player, etc), and I speak about clicks that we can track, not form aff programs stats
