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Are you an affiliate also? Or just posting as a player?
how are these guys even certified?? :flush:
bad for players, good for affiliates or vice versa?
Daera;147195 wrote:Are you an affiliate also? Or just posting as a player?No I am just a player with no where else to turn!
Cirrus owes me five grand (as a player) since over three years. There is no way out with the Virtual group, but you can try your best by warning as many players as possible.
Especially since RTG pulled out Montana, they are free to do whatever they want. This joint doe snot even pay their own managers and employees, so unfortunately there is really nothing you can expect.@nhalks 147203 wrote:
No I am just a player with no where else to turn!
Post this and try pitching a bitch at casinomeister.com ,
Edit :
Actually you cant pitch a bitch as this casino is rouged by them .
I was advised to enlist the help of The Professor and thus I have sent him a message telling him of my problem.
I will update you with the results of this when he gets back to me…:3eyes:
Cirrus informed they they had assigned me low priority status and were likely stagger my $10,000 payment – making approximate payments of $1000 approximately every month on the grounds that:
- I am not a recreational player like most other players
- I have advanced skills at Blackjack that exceed those of just luck
I do not actually fall into either of these categories as I have stated. I am a student with a part-time job and occasionally gamble when I can afford it. Also, I am not an advanced Blackjack player, I play using a simple strategy that I believe optimises my odds – though they still of course remain in the casino’s favour.
However, if they were correct on the above assumptions, would it be legitimate to assign me low priority and pay me my money over 10 months?
Are there such people as the non-recreational players that I have been lumped in with? My understanding is that Casino’s always have the edge and thus no one can have a guaranteed professional income from an online casino. The only execption I am aware of is the use of bonuses to tip the balance – but that is not applicable in my case.
I have been caused much distress by what I percieved as completely unfair behaviour regarding the payment of my legitimate winnings – I just wondered if they were in fact right to be vigilant? Maybe there are dishonest players that somehow manipulate the casino? If so then I would understand that it may be appropriate to punish these players who are not content with a level playing field.
However, I am not one of those (if indeed they exist) players. I am an honest player who risked my own money and have had some good luck – Please let’s resolve this issue.
If anything I would have thought I should be assigned high priority due to the propensity I will return after my win and the fact that I have wagered at least $23,000 at Cirrus.
You do not seem to have done anything wrong , or they would have just closed your account .
Now for cirrus , there a bullshit casino and they do this non payment to a lot of players . They are utter garbage and give good online casinos a bad name . All they know how to do is take take take and not pay anyone .
Be happy if you get anything from them , even if it is 1k a month .
Personally I , and many affiliates here do not promote them , and they and there group of casinos are blacklisted from most sites , and any affiliate promoting them doesnt care about there players . They are garbage and dont know why there even listed here .
QUOTE – “Be happy if you get anything from them, even if it is 1k a month”
I cannot be happy with that arrangement. Like you say, I have done nothing wrong and have taken risks with my money and in the process won a larger sum – There would be no issue if they had won my deposit so there should be no issue with my withdrawal.
This is MY money that according to Cirrus’s terms and conditions should have reached me a maximum of 15 days after my request which is today (7th December, having requested it on the 22nd November).
I realise that you personally (the27offsuit) may not promote them, however CAP certifies them, that is why I am enquiring here for possible recourse.
Nick, nhalks
Nhalks,
I am sorry to say but at this Casino you really need to be happy if they decide to pay you small installments instead of nothing at all!
I know exactly what it feels like to get burned by them and have unsuccesfully looked at many routes to recover my money.
In the current situation with RTG there is no way for anyone to “force” them to honor their debts and stand by their rules.
Though I do not want Cirrus to earn a single more cent from their foul business, I am positive that any webmaster (or player) will sooner or later personally get to realize who he is dealing with here. The Virtual group will make more and more money each day if careless webmasters keep promoting them.So… Cirrus rep: Do you feel like paying Nhalks or me by now? :baby:
I understand what you are saying Tribun. It’s just that I have spoken to several affiliates who have faith in CAP and the Professor to at least apply some pressure.
Additionally, the payout guy at Cirrus has said that we can discuss a more reasonable payout schedule after my first payment – if for example they agreed to pay weekly instead of monthly increments of $1000 (as I have noticed has been done in the past) I would be happy.
Let’s just wait for the Professor to respond and see what arrangements Cirrus may come up with…
Ok this is a player issue and generally we dont get involved with those.
Have you tried Bryan Bailey at Casinomeister? He specializes in helping players and has much better contacts on the casino side of the business. We work with the affiliate teams and generally they have little pull when it comes to players.
Nicholas I am going to contact the Affiliate Manager for Gambling Wages and see if he can provide any assistance, but I am not sure what can be done. They arent denying payment they are requesting a payment schedule. While this is something we dont see at Land Based casinos it does happen at Online Casinos from time to time.
Personally I think payments over time is for the birds. Players shouldnt be forced to act as an interest free bank for the casino but it does go on. Also this takes all the excitement out of being a big winner so its really counter productive for the casino.
I know in most states where a lottery is run they pay over time too and this can be spread out over 20 years. So there is precedence for timed payments.
Since you are only due $10K I am going to push hard to get you paid in a lump sum or at least over a shorter period, but I cant promise anything.
I will post here next week and give you a status update.
Dear Professor
Firstly, I would like to thank you for getting involved and attempting to help me on this issue.
I realise that this is a player issue and I did firstly contact Casinomeister for help as you suggested. However, Cirrus Casino are listed there as a “Rogued” Casino and thus were not able to help me – That is why I am here, I have exhausted all other known options.
My reasoning therefore was that since they are certified by CAP for affiliates to promote, then surely the affiliates would help me out as they would be concerned for the player as well.
What you say about Cirrus requesting a payment is not exactly true, they did not request a payment schedule they forced it upon me. Their justification for this was that I have been classified as some kind of ‘advanced blackjack player’ (whatever that is – makes no sense to me as I am not and there is no such thing at an online casino) and therefore I will recieve ‘Low Priority’ for payment which is apparantly $1000 a month.
With much respect, lotteries that pay over a period of time are clearly advertised as such and people who buy the tickets are aware of this. Additionally, the winner usually does have the option to take a smaller lump sum up front if they so choose. The difference is that you know this will happen therefore it is not really the same in my opinion – I would never have signed up with Cirrus had I known this to be the case. Their terms and conditions state that payment may take up to 15 days maximum.
Despite this, I am happy with spreading it out over a couple of months if they cannot pay it all at once (but not TEN MONTHS – that is ludicrous!), but it certainly is not a very respectable way to run a casino – on land or online.
However, I would like to thank you again for attempting to get a lump sum for me – like you say it is only $10K (Although 10K is a hell of a lot to me!!) and here’s hoping that you can achieve this.
:cheers:
Nick
nhalksHi Nick,
I understand your frustration.
The issue here is that it is possible to gain an edge over the casino due to the bonuses online casino’s offer and which you forgot to mention you had accepted (which is why some people would say we have the advantage when the casinos don’t have an advantage thanks to the bonuses you took).
Some players, I’m not saying you are one, come to an online casino, accept a bonus and play Blackjack with a strategy. Since playing strategic BJ has such a small edge, it is easy to grind through some playthrough and cash out. Basically it is possible to gain a mathematical edge with a bonus, which is why some people dedicate themselves to the profession of “bonus whoring”. These people don’t play for recreational purposes and they generally find harsh rules like these being applied to them since casinos (both online and off) do not want the business of people like this.
I can see you have been lumped into this category based on many different factors (again, I’m not saying they are right).
But as professor kindly pointed out timed payouts do have history, and in any Vegas casino if you are deemed an advanced player (card counting for example) they would treat you with the same disregard.
I sincerely do apologize for your negative experience and I will push to make sure your payout goes out sooner.
Kind Regards,
Nicolas JohnsonDear Nicolas
Thank you for your response.
I have just checked and realised that in this thread I did not in fact state that I used a bonus for my original deposit. However, I have said this to all the people that have asked me and I believe to the Professor, anyhow I believe this is irrelevant in my case as I will explain…
Having done much research to ensure I do not state infactual information, I completely understand that some people use bonuses to ‘tip the balance’ to end up with odds slightly in their favour. However, these people make very small bets with the bonus in order to ensure that it is statistically likely they will make a profit and thus consequently only make small amounts of money at each casino – but they frequent many casino’s so it all adds up…
If you have looked into my wagering, you will have noticed that I clearly do not fall into this category. I used a 100% match up bonus with no restrictions after perpetual email advertisements attempting to convince me to use a bonus (Why would I deposit and not use a bonus when bonuses are available?).
After depositing, I was instantly making bets of $10 upwards and often $25 (more than 10% of my deposit) whilst addionally playing slots – If I was a ‘bonus whore’ I would be a pretty crap one as I would be drastically reducing my chance of making a gain by not betting small amounts and playing high variance slots.
Additionally, it becomes clear that I am (unfortunately!) a hopeless gambler and not a bonus whore if you just look at my account history….I was lucky one day and withdrew $800. Then I just couldn’t help myself, cancelled the withdrawal, gambled more and advanced to $2000 and withdrew again.
Then, yet again I cancelled the withdrawal and gambled more, managing to get up to $4000 (by now the $100 bonus has surely become irrelevant) – a great amount for a student I could have paid off some debts! However, I cancelled the withdrawal AGAIN and gambled even more – this time often making bets of $400 – This is the trait of a gambler not a bonus whore!
You say that strategical Blackjack has a small edge but after much reading I believe that is not true unless you can card count or use a bonus and small bets – You cannot card count online, I made large bets and I didn’t grind through because I was betting fast and loose, thus I don’t understand why you are classifying me in this way?
As aforementioned, Cirrus sends me loads of promotional emails trying to get me to use one of their bonuses (I actually took the lowest percentage bonus because it had no maximum cash out and I wanted to gamble) – So surely it is unfair to then punish me for taking one?
The main thing I do not understand is why Cirrus have chosen this way to treat my big (big for me anyway!) win. They could advertise it and I would testify – imagine the headlines… “Man turns $100 into $10,000 in 24 hours!” – Surely the custom that would be gained from a press release like that would have covered the payout!
I am not a bonus whore, I have not acted even slightly like a bonus whore nor have I used bonuses to tip the edge in my favour as I have just proved. Why though, and I really do not mean to sound rude, do your casino’s offer bonuses if they then plan to take issue with payouts when they are used?
Anyway, I was told that I had been classified as an ‘advanced player’ because they said I have advanced blackjack skills – no one mentioned anything about it being due to a bonus, hence why I thought that was irrelevant and did not mention it in this particular post.
I sincerely do thank you for responding and pushing for a faster payout. I understand that timed payouts have history but when it happens it is clearly stated that it will happen – you must appreciate that nowhere in Cirrus terms and conditions is this mentioned and that I most certainly would not have deposited if I thought this would be the case.
It seems to me that the planned staggered payout was a punishment, as you seemingly believed that I was a bonus whore. I entirely understand this – any business should protect themselves from manipulation. However, I urge you, in light of the evidence that proves that I am not a bonus whore, to pay my winnings in a lump sum as soon as you can. I believe that a timed, staggered payout is not a reasonable arrangement to enforce on an honest player like myself.
Yours faithfully
Nicholas Halksworth
nhalks
