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Lots of webmasters make good money… but only if the advertised properties make money, too.
I just read an article in Igaming review written by Sportingbet where the author stated that they were in favor of paying for life for players still, but that they resented doing so if the affiliate ceases to send new players. That’s BS, if we hadn’t sent the player they would not be making $ from the player.
Now that sort of thing is an issue. And you are right, the casinos, poker etc are spoiled by getting quite a bit of free branding. To the point to where the value of branding has been pretty much lost in this industry. But – affilates can do very well for themselves. It just takes – well – a lot of work.
If you are not making money yet, you need to ferret out why that is so. Maybe ask for a site review here on the forum?
I 100% disagree I never have any problems paying affiliates life time of the player and do it gladly – because with out the affiliate the program would have had to pay upfront for those players. Always a risky biz.
The reason I like to work with an affiliate to keep sending new players is due to a simple rule of business. If you don’t grow you will shrink – Industry standard is a loss of 10%to15% per quarter – so if an affiliate does not send more players, eventually the affiliate thinks the program is not working for them.
Retention is expensive and a program rely s on affiliates to help grow the player base. I think we also pay for that player base by giving a fair share back.The way I run the affiliate side of Towergaming – is with the affiliate as my business partner – we all need to make a profit
Pokerknave;203678 wrote:…for website owners but great way of free advertising for the gambling website – discuss?NO.
Media wise – When a program opens its pockets and spend money, they expect to see ROI.
Bottom line, most affiliates don’t manage to deliver players, from various reasons.However, If an affiliate works hard, and bring players. he get paid. a-lot more than on a flat fee basis.
Affiliate marketing is a 2 way business – Programs do not pay for nothing, and affiliates get paid for results.I rather pay $200 for 1 player, than pay 20 affiliates $10 each, and get the same player.
Shay
I am not sure of the context of your question and whether you are an affiliate or operator. But hope this helps.
@Pokerknave 203678 wrote:…for website owners but great way of free advertising for the gambling website – discuss?
Investing in affiliates is important and NEVER a waste of time. This holds true for companies of all sizes.
Affiliates in the online world replicate the land based distribution model. And most successful businesses have thrived on affiliate marketing. For the gaming industry the affiliates generate roughly about 30-40% of the acquisition of new players. For the big operators it normally caps at 30% and the rest is contributed by online media buys, ppc, offline and type in traffic. For smaller companies, startups and new entrants this can be as high as 80-90% of the new acquisitions.
Affiliate marketing is a boon for small start ups as this is pure ROI acquisition. Without affiliates, many smaller companies will be in trouble as they have to then buy the traffic which is expensive and with no guarantee that it would convert and even if it does there is no guarantee that the player value would be good enough to justify the acquisition cost. On top of this they would have to pay upfront.
Affiliates always have the choice not to promote the programs who don’t pay you for life of the players. Therefore this shouldn’t be a hindrance. But it is in your interest to keep sending more players to a program (if you make good money) as it adds to the existing portfolio and elongates the time frame for which you will receive your residual commissions.
Bottomline – Affiliates are business partners who make money if the operator makes money. Both need to have a level of cooperation and coordination to succeed.
I really don’t understand the concern some programs have about paying for the life of the player.
The situation is supposed to be a win – win. I send you a player, you make money every time s/he plays, I make money every time s/he plays. It looks to me to be one of the fairest of fair business deals.
Without me you wouldn’t have the player and would not have the income. I don’t see how not sending additional players can make this deal null and void. You are still making money from my effort.
Obviously you would make more money if you didn’t have to continue to pay me – then just do CPA with affiliates. I won’t be working with you then, but plenty of affiliates will.
Programs like to say they partner with us – well, one partner doesn’t stop earning when the other is still making money from the partnered venture.
I will never work with a program that has a quota, no matter if I think I will always way surpass the quota. It’s just wrong in my eyes. Why should you continue to make money off my efforts and I don’t?
Dominique;203750 wrote:I really don’t understand the concern some programs have about paying for the life of the player.The situation is supposed to be a win – win. I send you a player, you make money every time s/he plays, I make money every time s/he plays. It looks to me to be one of the fairest of fair business deals.
I know this will be a can of slugs that I am about to open but what about the negative value of those players?
I know most programs dont carryover negatives but the players that affiliates refer should they not also be accountable for the losses too and not just the wins?
If a player wins big on the last day of the month sending the affiliate into the red, then spunks it all back on the first day of the following month, once commissions have been reset to zero. The casino takes the hit of the win, then has to pay out further commissions on the money spunked back.
Is that fair?
Can I use the word spunked?
TAKE COVER! :slapface::beatup::banger::help:
The negative carryovers – interesting issue.
How heavily they impact an affiliate depends on the size of the player base. Of course the casino has the largest player base and can absorb it the easiest. It hits affiliates most heavily.
If you have a big winner as affiliate, you can end up in the hole for months. That may mean no money to pay the rent, food, etc. The best you can do is to try to generate some immediate income by removing the program until it works itself out of the hole, so the new players you send will put some money in your pocket immediately elsewhere.
That in turn hurts the casino. So, most have opted to avoid carryovers.
Negative carryovers can cause affs to quit alltogether, many just simply cannot afford to continue to work on something that won’t pay for several months. And you just never know which small affiliate will be the king of the mountain some day.
The decision is also based on just plain open market competition. Why should one promote a place that has negative carryovers when there are lots of places that don’t?
One solution that used to be a lot more prevalent is “fencing”. That involves removing the winner from the aff account until the $$ are played back, and then returning him/her to the aff account. The casino gets to recover the loss while the aff is not affected. If you must do carryovers, do consider that.
@Dominique 203750 wrote:
I really don’t understand the concern some programs have about paying for the life of the player.
This is quite a messy topic. But I will try my best to answer this fairly. Before going further
I have to say that for the programs that I have managed in past, I have never enforced this rule or let my company enforce this. Because I think it is unfair.The only valid reason that I can think of is using this as a pressure tactics to get the affiliates to keep sending new players month on month.
This policy would only come from big established operators and never from small programs that depend on affiliates for majority of their traffic. The big operators have high acquisition targets for new depositing players every month and normal understanding is that they will get ‘x’ number of high rollers per every 100 players. One of the things they do to achieve this is pushing existing affiliates to improve the tally of new depositing players. It is understood that not every affiliate can’t grow month on month but at least can maintain the current numbers.
hope this helpsCWC-Martyn wrote:I know this will be a can of slugs that I am about to open but what about the negative value of those players?I know most programs dont carryover negatives but the players that affiliates refer should they not also be accountable for the losses too and not just the wins?
If a player wins big on the last day of the month sending the affiliate into the red, then spunks it all back on the first day of the following month, once commissions have been reset to zero. The casino takes the hit of the win, then has to pay out further commissions on the money spunked back.
Is that fair?
This is an interesting topic. I would love to hear what other people have to say.
I know this will be a can of slugs that I am about to open but what about the negative value of those players?
I know most programs dont carryover negatives but the players that affiliates refer should they not also be accountable for the losses too and not just the wins?
Just 1 “big” player can ruin your life time efforts if hew wins a lot and never shows up again, that is why.
Media wise – When a program opens its pockets and spend money, they want to see ROI. Bottom line, 90% of affiliates don’t deliver.
There are also programs that so not deliver regardless the traffic you send them.
However, If an affiliate works hard, and bring players. he get paid. a-lot more than on a flat fee basis.Affiliate marketing is a 2 way business – Programs do not pay for nothing, and affiliates get paid for results.
If I do not deliver players anymore or if I am old and sick, I would like to have the residual income paid for those players I sent in the past. Next to freedom that IS the most important business reason for me.
I rather pay $200 for 1 player, than pay 20 affiliates $10 each, and get the same player
.
That is why I never will join programs with such statements. I rather have 1000’s of players spending small amounts regularly than one time highrollers. I like my freedom and if I can not send high depositing players so be it : if I accumulate all it is still interesting for me.
Dominique;203760 wrote:One solution that used to be a lot more prevalent is “fencing”. That involves removing the winner from the aff account until the $$ are played back, and then returning him/her to the aff account. The casino gets to recover the loss while the aff is not affected. If you must do carryovers, do consider that.I agree with you Dom. However, what about managing the ‘Fencing’ process for 5000 affiliates, granted that there will only be a handful that may accrue the negative but none the less its still a case of managing it so that the affiliate doesnt lose out a cent.
Good responses people
Fencing on demand?
For me personally it would mean I don’t have to pull you everytime I get in a negative.
I will always still prefer programs that don’t have negative carryovers. There are only two programs with neg carryover I work with at all. And that’s because they are very good in all other ways.
But – even when affs still choose you over programs without negatives, your program will suffer from the removals. What costs you more?
Inspiration;203762 wrote:Just 1 “big” player can ruin your life time efforts if hew wins a lot and never shows up again, that is why.There are also programs that so not deliver regardless the traffic you send them.
If I do not deliver players anymore or if I am old and sick, I would like to have the residual income paid for those players I sent in the past. Next to freedom that IS the most important business reason for me.
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That is why I never will join programs with such statements. I rather have 1000’s of players spending small amounts regularly than one time highrollers. I like my freedom and if I can not send high depositing players so be it : if I accumulate all it is still interesting for me.
All is true, it is measure of individual preferences; Affiliates, and affiliate program wise.
Affiliate program with thousands of affiliates, by definition – cannot pay all of them a monthly fee, since there will be no business left.
The essence of affiliate marketing, is a commission based business practice. and the vast majority of affiliates operate in this manner.Each affiliate, has its own unique case. and it is legitimate & respected.
Shay
As a newbie and still trying to find my feet and it is interesting to see how the ‘old hand affiliates’ cope.
Maybe there should be a list of those affiliate programs that give you the best return for the affiliates effort including the argument of long term earnings. In my mind if I get a reward for finding a player then I expect the agreement should be I earn of that player until death.
Likewise why should I suffer because a player win?
I maybe naive but this seems like sensible views and I am amazed that people should swallow losing money because they did their job properly and kept their side of the bargin?
PK
Pokerknave;203779 wrote:As a newbie and still trying to find my feet and it is interesting to see how the ‘old hand affiliates’ cope.Maybe there should be a list of those affiliate programs that give you the best return for the affiliates effort including the argument of long term earnings. In my mind if I get a reward for finding a player then I expect the agreement should be I earn of that player until death.
Likewise why should I suffer because a player win?
I maybe naive but this seems like sensible views and I am amazed that people should swallow losing money because they did their job properly and kept their side of the bargin?
PK
This is not Naive, this is OK.
When working on a revenue-share model (%), you do get X% of the lifetime value of players. Sometimes, players are not very active, and their value is quite low, so the reward from such players is not high. and sometimes the other way around.Second part – Some programs do not carryover monthly negative account balance when players win, and some do. this is a factor that needs to be checked before start.
