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TheGooner wrote:a fasciniating insight – many thanks Dominique.
Some questions pop up in my mind :
1) I’m a small time poker player so I’ve never really noticed the extent of the rake – what share is it really of my bankroll over the course of a month?
It’s 1-2% of pot total isn’t it? and it usually caps off at a couple of bucks per hand at my level. That seems like it might only be 0.5% of turnover ??
Doesn’t seem much.
You would be shocked if you knew how much rake affects the income of a poker player.
Lets take myself as an example. I started playing No Limit poker, but was a losing player and decided to put some work into my game. I started playing shorhanded poker fixed limit at the 1/2 limit at Party Poker. After playing 18000 hands (I know this as I keep track with Pokertracker) i had a profit from the play at only 305 dollar. This equates to 0.85 Big Bets/100 hands. Its not very much, but its an ok start (players are considered decent to good when they make between 2 and 3 BB/100 hands). How much do you think I paid in rake?
Answer: 1251.50 dollar. That is actually almost 3.5 BB/100 in rake. If the site was rake free I would had a profit of 4.35 BB/100 hands.
Ok, lets see my 5/10 6 max numbers. I have played over 31000 hands at the other sites than Party. My winnings are 5225 dollar or 1.67 BB/100 hands. I have paid 7535 dollar in rake, or 2.4 BB/100 hands.
As you can see, the rake is horrible for the players, and it takes more money out of the poker economy than is good for the long term health of the games. The poker rooms have gotten too greedy (The Poker Room network is the worst offender after their latest rake increase – they kill their low limit players, Im actually telling every player i meet to stay away from those games).
The high rake makes it impossible for the serious players not to go after the rakeback sites. The losers are the fish, that pay too much rake, lose too much at the tables and do not know or understand the rake impact of the poker economy.
Watch out for WSEX, the rake free site. They will create an earthquake in the poker industry.
BTW, I pay between 6 and 8 thousand dollar in rake EVERY MONTH.
I am defnitely not arguing that poker players should not receive compensation for loyalty. I am all for it.
It’s just that the rooms are to take care of retention, not the affliates.
It actually makes little sense for rooms t let affiliates dispense the rewards, as affiliate I could care less which room my player plays at, as long as it’s under me.
Poker rooms would be wise to dispense the loyalty rewards themselves, so they could actually hold on to the players.
Dominique wrote:I am defnitely not arguing that poker players should not receive compensation for loyalty. I am all for it.It’s just that the rooms are to take care of retention, not the affliates.
It actually makes little sense for rooms t let affiliates dispense the rewards, as affiliate I could care less which room my player plays at, as long as it’s under me.
Poker rooms would be wise to dispense the loyalty rewards themselves, so they could actually hold on to the players.
Yep that was the main thrust of my post …
:blush:derhammer wrote:You would be shocked if you knew how much rake affects the income of a poker player.
….BTW, I pay between 6 and 8 thousand dollar in rake EVERY MONTH.
You play too much poker Mr Hammer …
:hehe:No seriously – thanks for the numbers game up there – I’ll sit down when I’m in a more patient mood and crunch them to understand them …
:clapper:derhammer wrote:Watch out for WSEX, the rake free site. They will create an earthquake in the poker industry.I doubt it. They are not the first site to offer a rake free site. Zerorake.com tried it and they went broke within about 6 months. WSEX is not offering a rake free site forever, I think it is till the end of the year. They are just doing this to attract new players for their online casino and sports betting sites.
Yes, thanks hammer for the numbers.
That offers a good insight for people like myself that are far from being poker experts!Have a look at this:
xhttp://www.rakerebatereview.com/
These are mostly the more established rakeback sites, and not the “new rakebackers”, who often do not have sites.
Look at all the poker rooms offering this!
If you dig deeper and look at a lot more sites you will find a lot more rooms there.
I understand that the rakeback affiliates pay to have their sites listed on xhttp://www.rakerebatereview.com
It wouldn’t surprise me if there’s bidding war to get the top spots on that site – as a result the rakeback affiliates giving away the most generous % may find it hard to buy the ad space.
Actually, these are the more conservative ones.
There are many rogues roaming the rooms offering 45% and 50% rakeback. These rogues are the bane of the existance of the “more conservative, established” ones.
Dominique wrote:Actually, these are the more conservative ones.
That’s my point, the 50% ones can’t afford to advertise on xhttp://www.rakerebatereview.com/
