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Wayne,
Affiliate marketing is another form of marketing. The so called superdupercasino becomes superdupercasino because they have a good mix of paid up front marketing and affiliate marketing.
Branding on the internet unlike other media’s is easier to credit those who bring in the sale. In some cases a cookie is dropped on the persons PC so should they not make a sale on their first visit, it is credited when the customer revisits.
Other marketing forms affiliates partake in is pay per impression (even though this is getting outdated it is still used) and credits the affiliate everytime someone visits their website and their banner is displayed.
Affiliate marketing is not for the faint hearted and in many cases is a golden opportunity for many to make tons of money who have no or little marketing background.
I think the answer is more like this:
Branding is not something that can be done just anywhere. McDonald’s didn’t have a brand to build until they had existed for a long time.
Similarly, Joe’s Diner in Timbuktu cannot possibly build a brand as well as Joe’s Diner in Times Square. Nor would a Hard Rock Cafe work in Tibet.
In the end, it has to be a two-way street. Affiliates cannot claim to be helping to brand a casino unless they have a significant amount of quality traffic. Similarly, a casino cannot undertake branding efforts without paying cold hard cash to large, well-known portals with proven traffic.
Therefore, the only way to reward an affiliate is by the players he or she brings in – whether that be by CPA or profit-sharing, in the end it is the only realistic method by which a casino can reward an affiliate.
It’s hard work, no matter whether you are big or small. I know that Got2Bet is often perceived to be big – but in actual fact we make way, way less than other affiliates who have more sites or better traffic. And that won’t improve unless I continue to work hard, unfortunately… this is 4 years down the line and I still don’t have any savings. On the other hand, the standard of living has gotten better and I am able to put my three kids through international school – barely, though.
Marketing department would call it
Branding… When campaign conversion fails :bigsmile:Wayne-
You should consider trying some type of white-lable or private label casino. That way any branding you do will be for your own brand.
Thank you all for the feedback
I have a question – what are ‘white label’ or ‘private label’ casinos?
I have heard the term but I don’t know what it means.
Wayne
Whitel labels are casino fronts that you get to name and design.
They also exist in Bngo and Poker, but not as commonly.
The best known ones are Gaming Federation Casinos.
This way you promote only one property.
Re: branding:
This is much discussed. It is of course against the casino’s self interest to have affiliates very aware of the value of branding, but I definitely agree with you there.
The thing is, why should casinos put money into advertising that cannot be easily evaluated? Why pay money for exposure when you have a huge free sales force busily building sites and branding you for free?
The only time that pays for a casino is when you have a site that has known, steady traffic of good quality. The casino knows that this site regularly addresses potential players in great numbers. These future players are most likely to respond to branding, and you will see, for example, a lot of advertising by referback casinos at pogo. This will yield few direct sales, but pogo players are quite likely to turn into new players at some point, and will then lean towards trying a casino they are familiar with.
Branding at sites where there are player forums and/or established communities can be very similair in effect. These players will get around to trying the casinos they see. But the turnover may not be immediately measurable.
Most casinos today do not brand properly and really have little idea what it is all about. They depend on PPC traffic and SEO.
This works to a point, but you will still always find that the well branded casino is the wealthier one too.
Branding portals is another story. There is only so much room for branded portals. I have been branding gamesandcasino for 2 1/2 years now, and most of my traffic now comes from repeat visits via bookmark, desktop icon or people typing the name in their browser.
I have spent considerable money on this and it has paid off. I have heard of other people having no luck with it. Branding is an art.
Casinos get discouraged with branding because it is difficult to really stick out from the crowd. So now we have these generic casino fronts that are like billboards, offering the ppc visitor lots of places to click. These are completely forgettable.
In this industry, branding is the forgotten art, and the few who have mastered it, are doing well for themselves.
If you are planning to enter the industry with a new site and have casinos purchase ads – unlikely to happen. First you have to establish the traffic. And yourself, your skills and reliability.
Quote:Marketing department would call it
Branding… When campaign conversion failsUnfortunately, this is a lame, lame excuse.
At one of the conferences I spoke at in the past two years, I talked a little bit about branding – it does work if you have a good concept of what you are doing.
Sticking an ad up on the site is not branding. Sending an email is not branding. Getting a radio or TV spot is not branding.
Getting all of them at the same time and properly coordinating things IS branding.
At the end, one casino operator said to me, “Branding is just an excuse for you portals to get more advertising money from us” or words to that effect.
My response was, “Have I ever asked you to advertise with Got2Bet?”
To which there was a muted, mumbled “no”.
That casino operator was one of our main affiliate programs at the time too – so to put it bluntly, he put his foot in it big-time.
Branding is a very detailed, comprehensive operation with a specific goal in mind. It can certainly be measured in general terms, but not specific terms.
I know that some affiliates, portal operators, and ESPECIALLY media companies love to talk about branding – which is why the casino operators complain. And most of these do not even have any inkling what branding is, so I don’t blame operators for thinking that branding is just spending money.
But the truth of the matter is, branding is an art. In the end, do not allow anyone to sell “branding” to you without a comprehensive plan and achievable, measurable objectives which do not include “visibility”, “clickthroughs” or “exposure” as selling points. The result must be measured by ROI in terms of increased activity and deposits over the specified timeframe – and must not fall back to the same levels after the campaign is over.
and must not fall back to the same levels after the campaign is over.
And that is where the value of branding exeeds that of PPC traffic.
To me any business who ante up big bucks for branding shows that they’re serious about obtaining market shares and building a long lasting existence. Branding is one of the most powerful asset of your business. Look at Casino On Net in this industry? The McDonalds, The Donald Trumps.. This a wide array of branding at work, which you seldom see in online gaming anymore.
Most amateurs these days can just put up a gaming site. And then rely on affiliate pyramiding to survive, which is a joke considering this doesn’t require any real marketing budgets. Hell no wonder many of these entities are the ones who don’t have the cash to pay their winners or webmasters when comes due times.
So Wayne to address your concern if you have a high traffic portal and you want to be rewarded for the branding efforts accordingly then I would charge them a flat fee or impressions to place banners via your site. It’s exactly what I would do since I don’t really believe in the affiliate scheme myself. It’s a windfall for the casinos to avoid all risks and not paying anything upfront. Kinda like a car dealership where they tell their salesmen, “here, I’ll fetch you a bone if you bring me bait”.
:angry: :angry: :angry:
Ummm Did you notice the URL or Title of this forum?Casino Affiliate Programs?
Let’s watch the affiliate bashing.
If you want to discuss affiliate issues or casino marketing then you came to a good place and you are most welcome.
Thank You
I don’t see that as affiliate bashing, professor.
I apologize if I offended you in any way.
I am an affiliate, and I have a branded site. And I believe in branding. And I believe that casinos, as well as affiliates, are better off with branded casinos.
Right now we have some overexposed brands, and a lot of nothings.
It would be very nice to promote some better branded casinos. Those of us who attract novice players in particular will profit from that.
Maybe it is a bit of bashing of affiliate programs, or casino marketing departments. But certainly not of affiliates.
Dominique I wasnt addressing you. I know you dont bash affiliates.
Please read all the posts with an eye on the ones that directly preceded my post.
Most amateurs these days can just put up a gaming site. And then rely on affiliate pyramiding to survive, which is a joke considering this doesn’t require any real marketing budgets. Hell no wonder many of these entities are the ones who don’t have the cash to pay their winners or webmasters when comes due times.
This paragraph starts out sounding like it is about affiliates, but it is really about operators. It took me for a loop when I first read it.
Given that these “gaming sites” are casinos or poker rooms or bingo halls, I have to agree with that statement.
So Wayne to address your concern if you have a high traffic portal and you want to be rewarded for the branding efforts accordingly then I would charge them a flat fee or impressions to place banners via your site. It’s exactly what I would do since I don’t really believe in the affiliate scheme myself. It’s a windfall for the casinos to avoid all risks and not paying anything upfront. Kinda like a car dealership where they tell their salesmen, “here, I’ll fetch you a bone if you bring me bait”.
I can see how the professor takes offense at this statement. This is an affiliate site. It is a bit insulting to affiliates.
It is even more insulting to affiliate porograms.
The flat fee business model is one of several that exist in this industry. As a matter of fact, many of us do charge flat fees at one time or another.
There are a lot of people making a good living by being an affiliate. There are a lot of people who do not make it. That is the same in any business.
Yes, the affiliate model is a windfall to casinos, and I have said so before myself. They get to have a great number of people busily building websites and giving them various degrees of branding for free.
What a coup – a free sales force, comission only, working their behinds off, many times without any reward.
We are all quite aware of this, as well as all the ways that programs can and do cheat affiliates, and/or make their work harder. They openly compete with us. And the ways of cheating – lets not get into that in public. Some may get some silly ideas.
As far as Wayne goes – he is fixing to launch a site. If he wants to eventually be able to subsist on media sales, he has a long road ahead of him, building up his site. He will likely need to earn his money as affiliate along the way. There is a lot to be learned about marketing.
You will see affiliates supporting each other and sharing a lot of information with each other – but there are some things we each have learned to do our own way as we gained experience, and those things are usually held tightly to our chests.
Professor I didn’t mean to ‘bash” affiliates in anyway. I too have partnered with casinos on a profit sharing basis many times. In fact some of the gaming establishments who host popular webmaster programs built their name recognitions prior to resorting to affiliate schemes. Obvious examples are the English Harbour and Forward Slash groups. They were well branded and were well exposed to gaming portals before creating Casinocoins and Referback.
Yet it’s the small proprietors with little or no cash assets who depend on my leg works and a bonus gimmick to earn a quick buck that I steer away from. Yes affiliate programs should be one element of your marketing strategy but it shouldn’t be the sole element. Just like bonuses shouldn’t be the only tool to promote signups. Affiliate scheming is a 1 on 1 gain on the dollar tactic, combining with your brand presence will make your business well rounded.
Some of you may remember Rodman casino. They only lived a few months. Anyways when they first launched their marketing guy approached me to do a business deal. He told me he’s only willing to offer a % plan. I told him I don’t do affiliate deals, only straight fees. He kept insisting that it’s better for them to pay me in the long run then upfront. So to compromise I said the most I can do is a $100/cpa which was reasonable. The guy backed down! Can you believe that? Most casinos would rather pay a cpa then a %. I blew him off and was glad I did but he kept calling and asserted that a % was better for both of us. And now where is Rodman casino?…. Exactly. The moral of the story here is since they didn’t have any cash they had zero risk tolerance. So they wanted me to take all the risks.
Now Adriches has my respect. They’re the only program that offers 7 different pay plans including impressions! It just tells me they’re willing to split the risks with affiliates right in the middle and that means they’re financially sound.
