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Hey Geek,
In my opinion you would make a great deal more from the casino games as you would be paid on the losses of the player rather than a percentage of the rake. OK they may win from the room, but they will come back and lose those winnings and more, as they feel that they can still clear up no matter what the costs.
However, you could get yourself a poker player who plays big tables thus racking up more rake. It’s swings and roundabouts and both can be as profitable as each other, but I think Casino losses are greater which make your commissions….well greater! :happydanc
Hope this helps?
That makes sense. I wonder what the ratio is between poker players and casino players for amounts deposited. When you think about it, if you have a player with limited funds, lets say $20 to gamble with. If he loses that in the casino games the most you can make is about $6. However, if this player is decent at poker your earnings are infinite. I guess I just like the fact that a player can deposit a mere $20 for poker, yet I have a shot at making hundreds off that player in rakes if he holds his own. Is that realistic, well I dont know as again I dont have the numbers to crunch, but I bet the veterans here know how many small time poker players have earned them big dividends.
Bonusgeel
I am pretty sure the addition of Blackjack at Party Poker has devasted my earnings there.
In theory I would have said adding casino games to poker should have produced HIGHER commissions, but in practice I have seen the exact opposite at Party over the last two months.
This doesnt make sense, but the numbers dont lie.
That is weird, because Party’s financial reports show that they nearly doubled their revenue and per player earn by adding blackjack. My guess would be that maybe players are just playing less at party these days Professor?
Most players have a finite amount of spare cash to spend and time to spend it in. There will only ever be roughly the same amount of $$$ per player available to be raked at a poker table or won via a casino game.
I think that you should earn a little more with casino games available as it will simply encourage players to spend a little extra, more quickly as Party Poker’s published results show. And the good players will probably still rake just as much, but not withdraw as much as they lose a portion to the casino games. That means more % for affiliates.
If you were making less, it would also mean the casino is making less – so why would they keep the games? The earn per player in casinos is much higher than poker rooms, and there is no reason to think that the combination of games would earn you less together than either on their own.
I know that I always get sucked in and lose a little of my poker winnings playing blackjack at playtech rooms, party and paradise.
Oh I agree Kris, when they first added Blackjack at Party Poker I was thrilled and was anticipating much higher commissions. But then my accounts went NEGATIVE so it wasnt just a matter of a drop off in play, it was the sad fact that my players were playing Blackjack and winning enough to not only cancel out the income I was generating from poker rake but to actually send my commissions into the Negative. :unhappy:
There is a silver lining though, if we close December negative again I will be pulling Party Poker from my front pages and adding Poker.com and Pokerroom.com. So while its a faminine for me now at Party Poker in the long run its probably going to benefit me as I now have the incentive to add new properties to my network and do some much needed updates.
Poker players who are winning consistently probably have enough sense not to blow their money at the blackjack tables, IMO. That being said, my revenue has gone up AND down at Party Poker. In October earnings dropped, then in November they were much higher, and so far this month, my earnings have dropped again.
I think I read somewhere that Party changed their calculation of commissions on blackjack earnings to a theoretical win basis based on the number of hands played rather than actual money won or lost at the tables. I’d be interested in opinions on that too. I’m not a fan of that particular model, personally, but I’m wondering what others think. (It’s probably six in one hand and half a dozen in another really.)
There is another issue. I posted about this in the Party Poker section and was surprised that no one responded. There may be a bug in the party poker blackjack software that is cheating the players. Obviously this would be a very bad thing for everyone.
BJF, have we had any independent confirmation of this PartyPoker blackjack bug?
Professor: Randy is right about the commission calculation for blackjack at PartyPoker. It can’t be negative. You get a percentage of the action instead of a percentage of the result.
I agree with Lou, I think adding Blackjack to Poker is hurting the affiliate. You want your poker players to win because you keep getting the rake, if a player is bounceing between bj and poker then he is not giving full attention to his poker game.
I also believe they calculate the payout to the affs differently for the poker players who play blackjack.
For me my numbers also went down in the last few months with some major negatives that I have never seen. For poker the revenue should be realativly stable or growing unless you have very poor players or players without a very long life span.
This is a good thread, would like to see more imput.
Brian
Ken I have worked with Party Poker since they started. I have always earned four figures with them every month. Starting in November my normal commissions went from positive four figures into the negative. They are negative again for December.
This has NEVER happened before…. Never. I have to believe it is somehow related to the introduction of Blackjack at Party Poker. This is not a theoretical proposition. My bottom line dropped out. Even if all my players suddenly decided to stop playing my account should not have went negative.
My stats with Party Poker for November:
MGR ($) -2808.67: Accrued -561.73
I don’t know if these results have anything to do with blackjack or not. I just know it’s baffling. I’ve since been replacing Party Poker with other Poker Rooms on my sites.
This has nothing to do with income, but I feel the blackjack tab on the tables at Party Poker is tacky, their software is becoming outdated and the refresh rate is anything but refreshing.
When I first got the word of poker rooms adding blackjack I thought it would be a good idea because I always earned more with casinos than I did with poker rooms.
Now you guys have me wondering though. This is a very interesting topic. I would like to know what others have to say on this. Is it common that earnings are dropping off for poker affiliates? My business is mostly casino so I can run any reliable numbers.
Please post your findings
Ken,
No other verification of the blackjack bug, but I’m surprised PP hasn’t responded to it.
That does seem like pretty damning evidence Professor. I’m curious…
Are you are seeing a positive ‘House Revenue’ from blackjack, but a larger negative number for ‘MGR’? Or, the other way around? Or, worse yet, both negative?As I understand it, only bonuses could cause negative numbers in either figure. Have they started some bonus program for your existing players maybe?
Definitely odd. I’m having one of my best months ever for Party Poker, but they’ve never been a big part of my revenue. They’re still not.
To bonusgeek
You state that you were +17 then -13 at poker.com This is due to bonuses being cleared . Poker.com does not have real money blackjack as of yet so its not that,
