Certification - open discussion

**Dominique** · 03-05-2009 07:40 PM

Well, we got some good ideas last time but the thread got derailed so we'll do a new one, and take it a step further while we're at it.

I am thinking that it's ok to have paid advertisers/sponsors, but that a certification needs to have some pretty well defined conditions and it should not be possible to pay for it.

So I wonder, what do you think these criteria should be?

Personally, I think they should have terms and conditions approved by AGD.

Then they need what? A certain standard for stats? banners? Responsiveness? And? Or?

**casinojack** · 03-05-2009 07:54 PM

I agree Dom, to a degree. I'm ok if a cert costs a couple hundred bucks, just not thousands.

We are about to launch, and I had AGD and GPWA look at mine, no charge, to make sure I was affiliate friendly, so maybe a couple organizations, just for check and balance.

After that, I think something like this:

1. Agree to an arbitration by "someforumorothers.com" in regarding any disputes / disagreements. This is good for both parties as many times, these things do not need to go public and get solved faster, as neither party feels wrong by the other. Much more professional.

2. MIN hours available by phone, email, Instant messenger etc, and a MAX time to return a message, email etc.

3. A rating. I think can be something like this.

Program A is certified. That is day one, and you have a rating of 1500.

Every x days with no compliants, payments on time, responisviess ok ,etc etc you move up say 10 points a month. Everytime you havea band month you loose 5 points.

If you ignore arbitration requests, loose 500 points.

etc etc etc. This way, the plans are spot checked, rated fairly, and the longer you play nice, the better your score. And new guys like us, may hurt to start, as we have to pay dues, but over all, I think is fair. If you liek the concept above, I can elloborate.

4."Aff choice awards"
Basically a place on the forum where a constant vote is going, and affiliates can vote for one program a month, and evry 3 or 4 months, all scores back to zero.

I am thinking of these ideas, as I was once an affiliate myself for many years, before jumping ship to manage one myself. Just some things to chew on.

**Spearmaster** · 03-06-2009 05:03 AM

Originally Posted by casinojack

I agree Dom, to a degree. I'm ok if a cert costs a couple hundred bucks, just not thousands.

You cannot be serious! As a player I would certainly not trust a casino who paid a couple hundred bucks for a certification... because it is a sure sign that the casino bought that certification without having to meet any standards! And the same goes for me as an affiliate - any Tom, **** or Harry can pay a couple of hundred bucks to get a rubber stamp...

A proper certification costs money to do, such as checking software, due diligence on the program operators, meeting certain requirements, etc. I'm not saying that a program needs to be held to ransom for certification, but it is simply ridiculous to expect a PROPER certification to be available for hundreds of dollars.

Certification can never be free if it is to be respected. But certification must not also be tied to any other external conditions such as advertising, events, etc. - a certification must be for the SOLE purpose of ensuring that a program meets certain standards, and agrees to maintain these standards, and agrees to arbitration in case of a dispute. Nothing more, nothing less.

It costs money to inspect these things, ensure compliance on an ongoing basis, and provide arbitration.

**Satya** · 03-06-2009 06:51 AM

Originally Posted by Spearmaster

You cannot be serious! As a player I would certainly not trust a casino who paid a couple hundred bucks for a certification... because it is a sure sign that the casino bought that certification without having to meet any standards! And the same goes for me as an affiliate - any Tom, **** or Harry can pay a couple of hundred bucks to get a rubber stamp...

A proper certification costs money to do, such as checking software, due diligence on the program operators, meeting certain requirements, etc. I'm not saying that a program needs to be held to ransom for certification, but it is simply ridiculous to expect a PROPER certification to be available for hundreds of dollars.

Certification can never be free if it is to be respected. But certification must not also be tied to any other external conditions such as advertising, events, etc. - a certification must be for the SOLE purpose of ensuring that a program meets certain standards, and agrees to maintain these standards, and agrees to arbitration in case of a dispute. Nothing more, nothing less.

It costs money to inspect these things, ensure compliance on an ongoing basis, and provide arbitration.

I agree with Ted on this. The audit process is not simple and would cost much more than couple of hundred bucks.

A scenario how the certification process can work -

We need a metric whereby the following groups of people/ organisations can score the programs based on a fixed one time scoring and an ongoing variable scoring.
1. Auditing company
2. Opinion leaders
3. Affiliates/ members
The variable score can go up or down based on affiliate & auditing company's feedback on the timely payments, quality of support, overall profitability and other parameters. I have put this together very quickly but some research has to done to get all the parameters and the weight age of the scoring right.

Sometimes back we had a thread about what the affiliates need to evaluate regarding a new program. There are a few good parameters in it. REALLY REALLY Important Question!!!!

But we also need to take into account the player side of things like the games, software, payouts.

**trader** · 03-06-2009 07:17 AM

Open discussion as it is - and to set the cat amongst the pigeons

In another post there was a figure of $40,000 bandied about for the cost of a program to be 'certified' - What does a program get in return for this in terms of tangible results ?
Seems like a large(ish) number - would be interested to know what an operator gets for it ?

**Spearmaster** · 03-06-2009 07:26 AM

I believe that figure you're talking about includes a forum and advertising as well.

If it is for certification only, it is way ridiculous.

**Dominique** · 03-06-2009 07:29 AM

Trader, you are missing the point of the thread. The question was not what used to be done, it was about the future and what should be done in your opinion. It is an opportunity for you to help shape future procedures.

Spearmaster, in my post it stipulated (and maybe I wasn't clear) that there would be a general advertising fee. This would not buy certification but advertising only.

Certification would be a seperate, no fee process. The question is exactly what that process should be.

**elgoog** · 03-06-2009 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by Dominique

I am thinking that it's ok to have paid advertisers/sponsors, but that a certification needs to have some pretty well defined conditions and it should not be possible to pay for it.

Ment is payment for the advertisment, not for the certification
(Dom, we double-posted)

**Spearmaster** · 03-06-2009 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by Dominique

Trader, you are missing the point of the thread. The question was not what used to be done, it was about the future and what should be done in your opinion. It is an opportunity for you to help shape future procedures.

Spearmaster, in my post it stipulated (and maybe I wasn't clear) that there would be a general advertising fee. This would not buy certification but advertising only.

Certification would be a seperate, no fee process. The question is exactly what that process should be.

Read my post again. Certification can NEVER be a no-fee process.

**trader** · 03-06-2009 08:29 AM

Chances are I am missing the point - I don't dig to much into the way it all works.

So that being the case, the money aside (which i would still like to know how it WAS justified, I am not alone in asking this) what benefits does a operator get from being certified

- As we move into this global recession, every industry including ours, is already looking at costing and resources. So many top level boards, CEO, chiefs at the top are going to be examining every part of there business and at some point that focus is going to turn onto any affiliation with CAP. Inevitably these questions are going to be asked. Be it from a couple of hundred bucks or from the man hours involved in being an active forum post on behalf of a company - what added benefits does a group get from being certified.

So to clarify my point - Step back from the details of HOW a site gains certification, WHY does a site need certification.

I am happy to post this in a fresh thread so as not to derail if you would prefer- however at many conferences i hear this question be asked by operators, however have never seen it posted

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