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nick777 wrote:

I just want to make one last correction with my math, as Darko pointed out, that 6.72 figure was my bad, since i forgot i had already split once to get the 0.64 total, and already had 2 hands, causing me to over multiply one number, the 6.72 should be 3.36, then divided by 4, and the 1.4 is divided by 2.

The actual roi figure for 2 handed play is this

Standing 0.70
Splitting 0.84

WOW, you admitted a mistake!!! I didn’t think that would ever happen. Okay, so now it sounds like you agree that if you compare standing on a single pair of 10s to splitting a single pair of 10s, you get the numbers that the blackjack experts around the world have accepted (~0.70 for stand and ~0.56 for split without resplits). But you are saying playing 2 seats at the table instead of a single hand drastically changes optimal strategy decisions?! Do you think the overall house edge drastically changes as well when playing multi-hand? What if you are in a B&M casino and several players are seated against a single dealer… Does the optimal split/stand strategy and house edge change drastically from when the other seats are empty?

You can use the cards played by the first hand to improve strategy slightly on the second hand in a card-counting sense. This is called “depth charging.” However, if you play with the same strategy in both hands, the average return per hand stays the same. If you have a million hands (and a suffiicient number of decks) the overall return would be 1 million * average return per hand. Playing 2 or more hands rather than single hand does not change the optimal split/stand strategy decisions.

Let’s extend your fomula of n!/2n * (Win rate per hand – loss rate per hand) further. If we cancel out the n, we get (n-1)!/2. For 4 hands, (n-1)!/2 = 3; and 3*(0.64-0.36) = 0.84. What if you were playing 5 hands and split all 5 to a total of 10 player hands, then it would be (10-1)!/2 = 0.18 million *(0.64-0.36) = ~50,000. Obviously, your expected return per hand is not going to be 50,000 times larger than your bet size!

It sounds to me like you are just making stuff up to get the results you want to see. You never explained why in the world you decided to multiply by factorials instead of the number of hands. If you are trying to do something with permutations and/or combinations, it is not relevant to this situation, and the formula is incorrect.

nick777 wrote:

What i find bad business practice is that michael and most likely his pal nolan, are employees of the wizard of odds, and the whole time they were taking shots at me without even realizing i was using the very same odds formula they were using, except that i had adjusted it for 2 handed play.

What was also very bad practice was that instead of coming here and taking shots, they could’ve just listed the correct odds formula for 2 handed play, or at least make it available on their site somewhere, if they knew it.

Now, you are just being silly. I’m an employee for Wizard of Odds?! Anyone who knows me from other forums, knows this is not correct. I’ve publically disagreed with Wizard of Odds’ info in the past… not because of incorrect math… because of outdated information. For example, I calculated different numbers on some of the Microgaming Keno returns (7-pick, 9-pick, and 13 to 15-pick), mostly likely because MG changed some of the Keno payout tables since when Wizard last checked.

nick777 wrote:

As a result i have lost major respect for the wizard, and i am certain that they didn’t invent the calculating odds formula over there, but just put it on the web, yet they act like they did, it was most likely invented 100+ years ago by someone like me trying to beat the house.

What “calculating odds formula” are referring to? How to compute an average (Congratulations on finally including losses in your latest formula!)? Formulas used to compute the returns from Wizard’s and my computer sims? I hope you realize the formulas I listed are common sense, and likely do not appear on the Wizard of Odds site.