@Renee 206949 wrote:
The player is not the affiliate. If you go back and read my example, I said the affiliate sends a player to do this in order to make commission from the play. The player and the affiliate are not the same person and the affiliate has done this on purpose to “scam” the affiliate program since there is no loss by the player here and the affiliate is making a commission from nothing. If the affiliate and the player did not know each other, I can see why it would be the player that should be shut down, but in the case that the affiliate sends the player to intentionally do this, this is affiliate fraud (in this case BOTH accounts get closed).[/quote]
If you shut the player account down – you solve the problem. If you shut the affiliate account down – you may unintentionally have caused damage to the affiliate who had nothing to do with the player.My point is not the “terminology” – my point is how this issue should be dealt with. You may not be able to prove 100% conclusively that the affiliate deliberately sent the player – but you will certainly be able to prove fraudulent play by the player.
Quote:If that’s not fraud committed by the affiliate then I think someone should probably revoke my aff manager badge. I’m not suggesting that the player is doing nothing wrong, but in this case the affiliate also needs to be dealt with. I’m not sure how I can make this any clearer.How do you know that the aff deliberately sent the player? And how much damage can an aff with no live players do to you?
You are going out of your way to take action where none is required, in the process potentially alienating a legitimate affiliate.
Quote:Why would I want to work with an affiliate who is trying to scam us? Or KEEP working with them after they have done the above? Are you saying I should not close the affiliate account and let them keep doing this? I’m not seeing any other point to your arguments about why it’s the players fault here? I’m interpreting your posts as the player’s account should be closed but the affiliate’s account should be left open. Is that what you’re saying?My point is that if the player account is closed, and the aff has no players left, you have no problem. If you instead close the affiliate’s account, and subsequently discover that the affiliate knew nothing of the player, what have you got to deal with then?
I understand where you’re coming from – but ultimately a scam without a participant is not much of a scam, is it?
Quote:The difference is the ~35% commission. If the player does not sign up through their own aff tag, they are not getting the 35% commission back from us which then gets recirculated through as well as the continuing retention bonuses, making the commission amount actually much more than 35%, especially if he cashes out. So he makes the commission AND cashes out. Then if he is claiming loyalty points and bonuses, say 20-25% regular bonuses, and 10% loyalty points, that means we are paying 35% commission, 30-35% bonuses (making the amount the player is getting on their money actually up around 70%), ~25% royalties, plus any admin costs.This one is hard to explain to someone who doesn’t see the numbers on our end, so you’ll just have to trust me here. Maybe one of the other aff managers can explain an example that is easy to understand.
Umm… you’re saying that the aff recirculates his aff earnings back into the system.
A player receiving cashback recirculates his cashback into the system. In this case, the “player” has cashback of ~35%, plus comps, bonuses, etc.
Or – a real player who is not the aff, loses whatever money, you pay the aff a commission of ~35%, which he then recirculates into the system. Plus comps, bonuses, etc.
As far as I know, the net result is the same. The point you are trying to make is that you don’t want to give ~35% cashback, but you are happy to pay out ~35% aff earnings. If the aff subsequently makes an equivalent deposit, you have exactly the same state – and in addition, you suffer additional processing charges, whereas an aff playing on his own account might actually request earnings to be placed into his player account.
Furthermore, if the player cannot sign up through his aff account, he might not play at your casino at all because:
a. He can’t track to make sure the system works properly
b. He can play elsewhere – thus you earn nothing from him as a player.
c. Because he isn’t playing at your casino, he might be less inclined to promote youI understand that this may not matter to all affiliates – but I do not promote nor recommend any casino I cannot test myself.
In my opinion, it actually costs you less in the long run. However, and I repeat again, I do not have any issue with a casino’s right to block play on one’s own aff account. I wouldn’t even care if you told me I couldn’t earn a percentage off my own player account, so long as I am able to play and test the tracking periodically. By saying one cannot sign up under one’s own aff account – you deny me the ability to do my own testing.
Quote:I guess if you still can’t see my point here we may have to agree to disagree.. I was just trying to point out why I was disagreeing with your comment (from the operators point of view) that it was only a sportsbetting issue and could not affect casino and poker as you said in one of your posts. Rather than just saying I disagree, my posts were demonstrating WHY I was disagreeing and showing examples of why I was disagreeing.. I hope the message has gotten across about why it can be an issue for casino and poker and is not just a sportsbetting issue for players to be playing under their own accounts.
The reason I differentiated is because you cannot offset one player against another in a casino, whereas you can certainly make opposing bets using different accounts in a sportsbook. This is definitely a situation unique to sportsbetting. Your issue is actually different.