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Hi there Grand Prive,
Today I learned you have added another brand – Villa Fortuna to the list of casino ‘skins’ (I think of them as that now they are all linked)..
I understand you’re already cross marketing to players – which I doubt we’ll get credit for but .. are you at least going to let us affiliates have tracking or will it be like it was with roadhousereels and the other one I can’t remember now?
Please do the right thing this time guys
Cheers,
Geno/CCHi All,
I would firstly like to make something clear on this post – Villa Fortuna is not a brand within the Grand Prive Group. It is a separate brand on its own, focused at non-US players, with specific focus on the European market.
With regards to cross-marketing, a small list of players were sent invitations to play at Villa Fortuna. None of these players were linked to any affiliate. This is one of the assurances I gave all affiliates in previous discussions on CAP, and I am committed to that. As such, we ensured that the list of invited players were not linked to any affiliates.
These players were invited to play at the casino as a means to generate wagering, which is one of the requirements of getting the brand licensed.
There is currently no working affiliate program for this brand. We have been working on the setup of the affiliate program, which will also be a program that is seperate from that of Grand Prive Affiliates. We are in the testing phases of this, and we will not launch the program until we are 100% happy that it is a working product with no issues – we are not looking for a repeat of the Grand Prive Affiliates launch. The aim is for Villa Fortuna Affiliates to be run as a separate entity.
Should you find any players posting on any of your forums with regards to Villa Fortuna, please delete the posts immediately. We are not looking for the brand to be advertised in this manner.
We will advise on the affiliate program for this brand closer to the time of launch, which we hope will be no later than 1 August. Please, this date is not cast in stone. That is the launch we have set at this time, but we are doing our best to have the program ready for launch even earlier than that.
Should you find any players posting on any of your forums with regards to Villa Fortuna, please delete the posts immediately. We are not looking for the brand to be advertised in this manner.
Hi Kamiel,
Thanks for your explanation.. However , it does intrigue me then why a forum member posted (which has since been removed anyway – but before an admin saw it said) ‘oh this is by invitation only’ … and then another posts back .. “Spoke to support and apparently told ANYONE signing up will get the 25 Free” … nothing like ‘this is by invitation only’ … !!!! (and PLEASE don’t fake ask who it was so you can tell them – they’ve obviously got clear instructions!)
Now, you / they or whoever can plead ignorance here, but surely THEY MUST KNOW how this would happen and it’s exactly what they wanted – leave our the affiliates and maximise still using their boards – it WILL happen, is happening before, and I’m very sorry if you don’t see how I think that someone with even a year’s experience in this industry could not have seen it coming.
I can understand business-wise why they would do it – it makes sense – it’s cheaper! But longer term I would suggest it’s then off-putting to affiliates once their program does eventually come along – because they’ve grabbed so many players in this way.
I am making VERY well on some other new Microgaming casinos (where they have the affiliate programs ready before marketing the casino), – probably more new depositors in a MONTH than I’ve had for RoadHouseReels and that other one that was marketed in a simialr way.
Whilst I do believe there is ‘something’ in them not being the same, if it’s using GrandPrive support, I find it difficult to believe there is no interaction and as you would be part of the affiliate set up, again – hard to believe you don’t have some ‘say’ in what goes on. I guess if you really don’t , then I’m sorry to hear that.
Grand Prive is going back to minimal exposure on my sites – it’s just too unbelievable for me and there are so many other Online Casino’s that offer an affiliate program straight off (it’s been done hundreds of times before – I really don’t see how it would take months to set up another one lol – it’s just time to cash-in without us) – it’s your (or their) choice .. and if that’s how you ‘look after’ your affiliates best interests, I think I’ll leave it as is..
Cheers,
Geno/CCJust removed from my forum….
NEW GRAND PRIVE CASINO-VILLAFORTUNA 25FREE!
Hi everyone there is a brand new casino from the GRAND PRIVE group that will officially launch JULY 1ST everyone who joins now will get 25 free NO DEPOSIT!!! xxxxxwww.villafortuna.com is the link , i recieved an invitation to join and did so – i also talked to support and they said that EVERYONE who joins will get the 25 FREE! by the way if yo do join please sign up under me xxxxxxxxxxx@eircom.net thanks and GOOD LUCK everyone!If these players are not given incentives to go out and market to other players why is this member asking for everyone to use her as the referral? This is a brilliant marketing idea and I can totally understand the purpose in it, like it was mentioned above it is the most cost effective thing to do for a business but the difference is not all the other “Micro” programs use this method, they do the right thing and include the affiliates, they value us and treat us as part of the team.
I agree if you had intentions of running an affiliate program separate from the Grand Prive then it should have been put into place before the launch of the casino, Kamiel I respect you and I am very impressed with the positive changes made in the program but this just has put a bad taste in mouth and it is causing a set back in my trust in this program once again, please do not treat us seasoned affiliates as if we do not understand what is happening here.
Also why should I police and clean up your companies marketing blunders? Now I have to work and be sure I am not giving this casino free advertisement on my forum.
This is wrong – because if a player is solicited to advertise on forums, in effect the casino is stealing from the affiliate.
You can’t ask a reader to insert a free ad in a magazine, online properties are no different. Forums and websites are advertising vehicles owned and maintained by affiliates. Using them without an arrangement with the affiliate is, in effect, theft.
Hi All,
I totally understand everyone’s frustration and anger with regards to this issue, and rightly so. However, there have been major misunderstandings and confusion created by the actions of a few.
I would like to set the record straight with regards to all issues raised, in as much of a logical order as possible:
Villa Fortuna Launch
The official launch date for Villa Fortuna is 1 July 2008. As I have mentioned in my response to the original post by casinocrush, we did send out an invitation to a select number of NON-AFFILIATED players as a means to generate purchases and wagering. The license requirements imposed are different to that of any of the other casinos we have launched in the past. In order to have the Maltese license, we have had to, as a final requirement, generate purchases and wagers, which is then reviewed by the licensing board.25 FREE Offer
The 25 free offer is not an openly offered promotion. If you refer to the Villa Fortuna website, you will see that this offer is not advertised on the website at all. The 25 free offer was used as a mechanism to get the invited players to test the casino, and to generate the necessary wagers and purchases.Players referring players
I have done extensive checking to ensure my facts are straight on this issue. No casino within Grand Prive, nor Villa Fortuna, offers any Refer-A-Friend promotion or bonus. We have not requested nor instructed any player/s to refer their friends, family, etc. Nor have we made any players any offer/s to drive players to the casino. The player who is posting up on the forums is doing so with her own agenda in mind, and we have no idea what her agenda is.It is for this reason that I requested all affiliates to please ensure that any references to Villa Fortuna are blocked or removed from their respective forums. I understand that this is work for you, but considering the levels of technology employed within most forum back-end coding these days, it would mean the inclusion of a rule that any reference to the words Villa Fortuna would result in these words being blocked out / replaced with characters that would make the post useless to anyone reading it.
Affiliate Program
Yes, a casino should launch with an affiliate program. And yes, that is what we intended and still do with regards to Villa Fortuna. We have been working on getting the Villa Fortuna Affiliate program running by 1 July. We went through quite a tough and problematic launch when we switched from ReferSpot to Grand Prive Affiliates, and I am sure you can understand that we were not looking for a repeat of that. As I have said in my previous response, the affiliate program is in final testing, and will be ready soon. I used 1 August as a date to ensure that we did not raise expectations, only to disappoint or not deliver. I am however confident at this point that the program will go live on 1 July, and hence me now committing to that date.I hope that this now clarifies all the issues. I also hope that you believe me when I say that we had no, and will never have any, intention of negatively affecting our affiliates in any way.
Thanks for the detailed explanation Kamiel, we have now blocked out the casino name on our filter so that will make life much easier and less work.
Hi Kamiel,
Thanks for your detailed explanation.. I’m sorry though – I don’t buy it… If you’re truly an experienced affiliate manager and were involved in the process of launching (which you kinda implied above), then you are either very naive or knew what might happen – any experienced affiliate manager knows how things work in the ‘real world’ especially with the very effective method of forum marketing – the best of which are represented here via CAP members.
Of course, I can’t speak for everyone, but I have seen these ‘tricks’ or ‘mistakes’ or whatever you like to explain it as losing out the affiliates interest.. too many times…
From my point of view it’s either ‘work with us’ … or don’t .. not a half-assed attitude … you knew this casino was launcing (from what you said above), yet (from my point of view), I don’t believe you really considered the affiliate impacts properly..
I will leave grand prive on minimal advertising – that is what it’s worth new player wise at least.. I haven’t earned ANYTHING on the new program, despite new links and I know that that is just unreal in the way any other program I’ve worked with has been – even on minimal exposure..
Sorry but I’ve personally had enough and well I accept maybe “it’s just me” .. but I think if other experienced affiliates really reviewed their other MGS affiliate programs vs. GPA then I think most would find their stats are better on an ‘increasing %’ basis over the last (well, for me – 2 years) past ‘better’ times…
I’ll not be bothering with Villa Fortuna affiliate stuff – I will be recommending to my players (who know that much of the money we earn from affiliate programs goes back to them), that they not play at Grand Prive or signing up via us any more. It’s no big loss to me, plenty of better MGS affiliate programs out there in my mind and experience.
Thanks again for showing how you take care of your affiliates – it really helped me make this decision
Cheers,
Geno/CCHi casinocrush,
I appreciate and take on-board all your comments with the due validity and weight that it deserves. I understand that you are passionate about this industry and what you do – so am I. I also appreciate the fact that the Villa Fortuna issue has sparked great aggrevation for you and others – which is understandable.
However, please do not make this into a personal matter on the part of my integrity or my knowledge and experience. I have been nothing but upfront with you in my discussions with you on the phone, as well as in my responses to posts here.
I have come into this role at a very difficult time in the life-cycle of Grand Prive Affiliates, and I can honestly say that I have done everything I possibly can to not only fix past issues and mistakes, but to also ensure complete transparency and open communication between the program and affiliates.
Yes, I have been involved with the planning of the affiliate program for Villa Fortuna. Yes, I have been working on getting the program up and running for affiliates to be able to market.
However, let me reiterate this point yet again – the 25 free offer has never been advertised on the casino website, nor have we asked any players to refer other players. The offer was sent to a very small base of existing non-affiliated players as a means to generate the necessary wagers for the licensing of the casino. The decision to go to players with 25 free was made outside of my knowledge and a day before the players were invited, due to the urgency of the need to get wagers through. The fact that one player then decided to act outside of any actions endorsed by the casino or ourselves was beyond our control. We have even gone so far as to request that affiliates block any advertising of Villa Fortuna on their forums.
It is entirely your right to either market or not market Grand Prive Affiliates. If you feel we have done wrong by you and that we hold no value to you as an affiliate, that is your right to feel that way, and by all means, I do not and will not hold that against you.
I do not appreciate being branded or pulled into a class of being an affiliate manager who has a “half-assed attitude” towards any affiliates, because I don’t. If this comes as a result of me not being able to fulfill your request of providing you with tags / links for Villa Fortuna before any other affiliate, even though the program is not live yet, then I apologize that I could not deliver on that request.
I believe in doing things properly from the start, and my objective is, and always will be, to launch a working program for the casino without repeating the problems that was experienced in the past. Doing that without proper testing in place would be as you say “half-assed”.
At the end of the day, if I am to buckle under pressures and launch a program that I am not 100% happy with, and things went pear-shaped, then this conversation would be around the fact that we have launched another problem program, or topics along those lines. So, forgive me if I am pedantic in wanting a program launched that works 100% from the start, and not wanting affiliates joining one that had “half-assed” effort put into its creation.
Kamiel,
Thanks again for your reply. I do feel, however , that you are missing my main point – taking care of the affiliates interest first.
I would have thought, as has been the case with many casinos launched that the affiliate program testing is part of what happens BEFORE a casino is even launched. Bearing in mind the experience I would assume one would have from having an existing program, I would also think (as a person with a lot of computer/programming project type experience – where things are ‘similar’ in similar projects), that it should be relatively straight-forward (not necessarily simple, and maybe time-consuming) to create and test an affiliate program before a casino launched.
Whilst you have asked affiliates to pull ads, you MUST know there are LOADS of forums that are not as well managed as many CAP affiliates – who let people post whatever/wherever – and potentially where they *could be* earning – I see that as their issue, but when it comes to the casino picking up free players – it’s basically free marketing from those posting the promos – and you know how viral this is – it only takes one post on one forum and it’s everywhere.
I can’t really believe that this wouldn’t be considered – in fact if it was considered it’s the cheapest and a fairly effective way of getting a bunch of new players – with no affiliates to pay (nice for the casino!)..
However, and this is my real point …
By pre-launching this casino in this way, without an affiliate program – I don’t see as maximising affiliates potential – we’ll lose out on all those players we could have got in via the affiliate route – as we all know that the casino is not going to reject new players whilst they’re in ‘pre-launch’!
Anyway, that is my point, and as I said, and have posted on my forum now – I will not be recommending Grand Prive to our members purely for the fact we don’t feel that we are being treated very well as affiliates compared with the many other programs and casinos out there.
I should point out that I’ve NOT suggested to them that Grand Prive Casinos are unsafe or dodgy and my message is more geared to our loyal forum members who regularly deposit at casinos registered via our site, from which much of our earnings go back to them (helping us to help them get more for their dollar).. Grand Prive will still be advertised but only on a minimal basis (only in relevant topics as posted by our members).
If this form of ‘free marketing’ was unforeseen then perhaps you’ll consider that as ‘more experience’ to use in the future – as far as I’m concerned – I’m done with those not taking care of the best interests of affiliates.
Regards,
Geno/CCWithout stepping into a pissing match here I just wanted to say that after meeting Kamiel personally and spending time with him I got the feeling he is a pretty upfront guy and he does care about the affiliates interest. I am not saying that what has transpired is acceptable BUT I am willing to believe Kamiel when he says that things got out of hand and they are now controlled.
There have been many good things happening since he stepped in to manage all the mess that was going on, I just don’t think it is fair to attack him on a personal level.
I’m sure Kamiel is just fine, but these type of ‘slip-ups’ from GPA / ReferSpot from the past (which I know is ‘the past’) leave me a little more ‘sour’ on the program / management (again, mostly past people – but all representing Grand Prive Affiliates/Referspot) than the last time.
The whole point of this thread was this particular instance – of a casino launching without an affiliate program ready and tested. Whilst there can be all the reasons / excuses / or ‘not realising’ in the world – the fact is – we, the affiliates, have potentially lost out on a bunch of new players that, had an affiliate program been in place – we could all have probably benefited from. I, personally, don’t think that THAT is in the best interest of affiliates.
Anyhooooo… this is all academic now – I’ve made my point and explained my position so I’ll leave this topic to die in its usual manner
Cheers,
Geno/CCLOL yup…
I can’t help feeling a little satisfaction that I had the right feeling about this group …
Personalities aside, this group (whether or not the affiliate managers knew it), had been in a decline for a LONG time and people were seeing it, and well, I don’t see other Microgaming affiliates pulling out (hope I didn’t tempt fate there) … probably because slowly but surely more affiliates have been advising their players to go elsewhere.
Time to find all those OLD links in your sites and make sure they’re removed (as I bet even the affiliate links will still direct to the casinos!) LOL
I miss the referspot days
