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March 2, 2006 at 5:47 pm #685215
Anonymous
InactiveIMO you will find very hard affiliates to advertise on a site unless you have good traffic and stats to prove it.
Think like this:
– you are asking the affiliates a fee that is higher then what you would earn as an affiliate yourself(it doesn’t make sense to sell your space for less money that you would earn yourself as affiliate plus the playerbase and recurring revenue you will earn in long term)There are not big differences of what you can get as a new affiliate and well established ones if you personally aproach affiliate managers. You should be able to get good deals for your top spots.
March 2, 2006 at 6:34 pm #685225Anonymous
InactiveI think the only way that would work is if one affiliate paid a flat fee for run of the site – which would be lower than what you would make as an aff yourself – and funds your building of the site that way.
March 3, 2006 at 2:00 pm #685289Anonymous
InactiveI have never liked being an affiliate though, I would rather have a steady income that I can depend on, for all my sites.
I own some webmaster/hosting sites back when the hosting industry was amazing for affiliating, just like poker is now but even then I still just sold ad space, and I was getting $15-$30 CPM (For 1000 impressions).
I like being able to know how much I am going to have each month from each of my sites, DeuceAce is my smallest site right now but its doing pretty well so far.
I have got some amazing deals for being an affiliate, I get contacted at least once a week from various rooms offering me a way higher % than I could have even thought of but it doesn’t appeal to me.
March 4, 2006 at 9:39 am #685331Anonymous
InactiveDeuce–
While I understand that you’d like to KNOW what sort of income you’ll have each month, the truth of the matter is it’s unlikely (at this time) you’ll be able to get a paid media deal that would make sense, profit-wise. I’ll try to explain…
There are very few paid media sites now. The reasons for this is that the sites that can command paid insertions are able to do so because they have done the hard yards and have (generally speaking) high SE rankings, big traffic and have developed relationships with the various campaign managers/marketers, etc. And IF you have those ducks in a row, more often than not, you would make FAR more money by going with a rev-share situation.
Additionally, you cannot begin to imagine the pressure you would have running paid media campaigns. I can only speak from my own experience, but I can honestly say that I really hate mid-month and the last few days of the month, followed by the first few days of the month (doesn’t give much time to be stress-free, does it? lol). Why? Come mid-month, I hear from those campaign managers who are screaming that performance isn’t living up to THEIR expectations. Never mind that several marketers have incredibly unrealistic expectations–I just have to grin and bear it. You see, you DO have to perform if you have any sort of dream of a contract renewal at the end of the month.
This brings me to why I hate the end of the month. This is the time when I have to hustle and make certain everyone was happy and that they will continue on. It’s negotiation time. On average 70% are happy with the results. It’s the 30% that become nightmarish for me. It’s at that moment that everything kicks into high gear to save the advertiser for coming months. Believe me when I tell you that if you lose an advertiser for poor performance, it’s gonna take months and months of convincing and begging (not to mention higher rankings and traffic) to get that advertiser back. And if indeed I DO lose an advertiser, I have to sort out new advertisers to make up for that lost revenue.
The first of the month is just as much of a headache. Having to chase up signed insertion orders, banners, tags, etc. is not my idea of a good time. Remember, if you don’t have things in on time, you have fewer days to make the campaign work.
In a perfect world, I’d probably prefer it if GoneGambling went to straight aff deals, however, it would never be practical. Because of the way the site is set up with the Games and High Rollers bonuses, etc., having to look after stats and balance books would require hiring accountants and investing an unbelievable amount of time. It’s just not practical. In our situation, the paid media model makes sense. With that said, there are very few paid media models that WOULD make sense, these days.
More for you to ponder is that you truly need volume of advertisers to make a decent income as a paid media site. I don’t know what you THINK you’d get for a month of ROS advertising, but I can tell you whatever you’re thinking, it’s gonna be less. You will only get the big rates after establishing a track record over time. Even then, big rates are tough to bring in, as they’re such a gamble for the advertiser. Also, most advertisers will want to test first, so you can pretty much scrap the notion of quarterly or bi-annual contracts. Again, you’ll have to establish a pattern of delivery to achieve this.
At the end of the day, being an affiliate means you have freedom. Why would you give that up?
March 4, 2006 at 1:53 pm #685340Anonymous
InactiveHey,
Thanks for taking the time to do a long post.
I’m afraid I don’t agree with most of it though, I have always been managing paid advertising on my sites for years so I know what is needed to do it and I don’t mind, I have quite a good system which makes everything automatic, I paid a coder to do it last year and it emails any advertisers that have their campaign ending soon and includes all the latest stats automatically.
I really don’t mind about the managing of advertisers, I think its worth it.
Right now I have no problem selling ad space on my site, its very rare that I have a space available and when I do, its normally bought it very quickly.
What I am trying to do though is get long term advertisers, maybe smaller rooms that want somewhere to advertise and have a partnership with the community they are advertising on.
I am trying to change over to “package” deals which give advertisers a lot more (Each gets their own space everywhere on the forum and their site is included in all emails sent to members) – I am trying to create a partnership with the advertisers and the community.
Totally agree with you about the expectations of some advertisers though, I get that on all my sites.
Another thing advertisers don’t think about is advertising is also branding – Advertising gives their site exposure and branding.How many times do you see an ad before even paying any attention to what its selling/advertising?
March 4, 2006 at 4:44 pm #685353Anonymous
Inactivegreedygirl wrote:Deuce–While I understand that you’d like to KNOW what sort of income you’ll have each month, the truth of the matter is it’s unlikely (at this time) you’ll be able to get a paid media deal that would make sense, profit-wise. I’ll try to explain…
There are very few paid media sites now. The reasons for this is that the sites that can command paid insertions are able to do so because they have done the hard yards and have (generally speaking) high SE rankings, big traffic and have developed relationships with the various campaign managers/marketers, etc. And IF you have those ducks in a row, more often than not, you would make FAR more money by going with a rev-share situation.
Additionally, you cannot begin to imagine the pressure you would have running paid media campaigns. I can only speak from my own experience, but I can honestly say that I really hate mid-month and the last few days of the month, followed by the first few days of the month (doesn’t give much time to be stress-free, does it? lol). Why? Come mid-month, I hear from those campaign managers who are screaming that performance isn’t living up to THEIR expectations. Never mind that several marketers have incredibly unrealistic expectations–I just have to grin and bear it. You see, you DO have to perform if you have any sort of dream of a contract renewal at the end of the month.
This brings me to why I hate the end of the month. This is the time when I have to hustle and make certain everyone was happy and that they will continue on. It’s negotiation time. On average 70% are happy with the results. It’s the 30% that become nightmarish for me. It’s at that moment that everything kicks into high gear to save the advertiser for coming months. Believe me when I tell you that if you lose an advertiser for poor performance, it’s gonna take months and months of convincing and begging (not to mention higher rankings and traffic) to get that advertiser back. And if indeed I DO lose an advertiser, I have to sort out new advertisers to make up for that lost revenue.
The first of the month is just as much of a headache. Having to chase up signed insertion orders, banners, tags, etc. is not my idea of a good time. Remember, if you don’t have things in on time, you have fewer days to make the campaign work.
In a perfect world, I’d probably prefer it if GoneGambling went to straight aff deals, however, it would never be practical. Because of the way the site is set up with the Games and High Rollers bonuses, etc., having to look after stats and balance books would require hiring accountants and investing an unbelievable amount of time. It’s just not practical. In our situation, the paid media model makes sense. With that said, there are very few paid media models that WOULD make sense, these days.
More for you to ponder is that you truly need volume of advertisers to make a decent income as a paid media site. I don’t know what you THINK you’d get for a month of ROS advertising, but I can tell you whatever you’re thinking, it’s gonna be less. You will only get the big rates after establishing a track record over time. Even then, big rates are tough to bring in, as they’re such a gamble for the advertiser. Also, most advertisers will want to test first, so you can pretty much scrap the notion of quarterly or bi-annual contracts. Again, you’ll have to establish a pattern of delivery to achieve this.
At the end of the day, being an affiliate means you have freedom. Why would you give that up?
Thanks for that input, and this is a very interesting topic.
I do some of each, but I do turn down most media buys. If a place does not convert well on my site as aff deal, what makes them think they would do better as media buy?
Probably because they would like more control over exact placement. Thing is, I am the one who knows my site best. I know exactly what works best where. So what to do if someone says they will give me x amount of money for placement in spot A,B,and C? I tell them it won’t work. I tell them what I think would work. It doesn’t fit the set rules or budget and they insist on the original proposal and I have to turn them down. I don’t like the idea of people paying money with expectation of immedate profits that don’t happen.
So I mostly take offers that are aware of the huge benefit branding can be for them, and I take only long term placements. That way branding is allowed to take effect and I always have happy customers.
For me, a mix is best. It provides both security and freedom, and I can make sure all parties are happy.
As far as work goes – I don’t think either model is less work than the other. They both come with their share of nuisance.
March 4, 2006 at 4:51 pm #685355Anonymous
InactiveGood post

I agree with everything you said, I have always turned down advertisers if I think they won’t do well.
I don’t want someone to waste money on something that won’t do well for them.
I would far rather wait and have an advertiser that will do very well from the placement and have a long term deal than have an advertiser that has a short contract and doesn’t get good results.
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