Massive Frauds in the Casino Affiliate Programs - Page 2

**Gambman1** · 10-11-2005 11:37 PM

Yes he is a big joke
I seen him last years all over the net posting about fraud, mafia and you name it.

bb1webs · 10-12-2005 04:34 PM

have to say that he is probably closer to the truth than most people

would like to acknowledge or admit. To side one's view on the other end of

the spectrum of honesty is just as ridiculous people.

there alot of truth in some agendas

Hi all,

well to be completely honest, from a standpoint of being cynical (as anyone should be when it involves
1) money + people you don't know extensively
2) the fact that you are not able to conduct competent audits without notice

now consider this; most places deliver in realtime nearly all your stats EXCEPT deposits/income.

I have always found it to be an unnecessary kink in a system where trust is involved, that the money line is always updated not in real time (except RTG, whom I commend for that but then condemn them for what i consider perhaps their way of making up for not being able to have that inbetween time from player's true status to our stats ... a little thing they like to call "managers credits" and about 3 other columns of places where they can get away with shaving a bit of your income without your having any way of knowing if its true or not ...)

Tell you what would impress the hell out of me; would be if Microgaming showed everything in realtime, which we all know IS possible; proven to be possible by RTG, cause i've watched my own deposits into an RTG casino and seen it show up in the stats in like seconds...

so the tech experts can spout all the mumbo jumbo to me they want to about why its not possible this and not possible that; but I'm not so stupid I believe it is possible to the point of being a working model for one software; that another software couldn't achieve it.

Now as far as Crytpo goes; well they make far too little money IMHO for as much as I know I like the software; when I first started I promoted IC and Sands heavily but they never made any money. IC's stats never showed any signups early on so I quit them in favor of the Sands only later to realize that i had a bunch of players signed up there but the place had only actually sent me a check like one or two times. They were a huge waste of my resources and money. Since then I've started using IC again and have seen at least some results that shame the Sands, though nothing outstanding by any means.

and I know for a fact that you can resign up using a different email address (this was a few years ago granted) and you can successfully move your account from one affiliate getting credit for your play, to another.

which then leaves it no big stretch to the imagination to think that your players are easily siphoned off.

However I have no such proof other than I know I moved my account several times, mostly due to the fact that I'd lose my info I needed to regain access to the casino (often more than 6 months had passed btw for those that argue people don't return after 6 months - coughbull****) and rather than wait for intercasino's incompetent support to reply, if they ever replied;. . I'd just resign up and get a new account. *keep in mind this was a long time ago and things may have changed since then.

results are bottom line. look no further. other stats are great for judging a program's status on your site to help you adjust your angle so that you can make best the program's strong points to your advantage. but if you want to know who your best program is ... look at the bottom line + amount of exposure and no further. *I cannot help but think of Vegas Partner when I mention this; they were decent in every category except the most important one, which of course is a shame imho that they couldn't show a bottom line that was even close enough to warrant my keeping them listed on my sites. They started out making decent money but as my player base grew, my income fell off. sound familiar anyone?

who gives a damn what your download to real player ratio is - if it is only making a fraction of the money that the other place makes you; even though they have dismal stats in most categories ... except the most important one.

**stdio** · 10-13-2005 02:29 PM

I, for one, am very happy to see this.

As an outsider to the gaming industry investigating profit opportunities, this is the #1 issue that causes me to lose sleep at night. I want to begin a significant promotional effort with several poker/bingo programs but this is the biggest thing holding me back.

I've been searching around for a couple of weeks looking for information to allay my fears, but really have found nothing. The "massive frauds" the posted article speaks are some confirmation of my exact suspicions in investigating this industry. I am interested to see the full article.

The previous poster seemed to hit the nail on the head; money + people you don't know + lack of independent audit.. Seems like a recipe for skimming to me. Skimming might be too watered-down a word for it. To anyone who believes there is a technical hurdle, a 6th grader could modify or code software from the ground up to cheat.

I don't want to disparage all affiliate program operators, in case there are people out there running programs on the 100% up-and-up. If you have done your own research on poker/bingo programs which accurately reflect conversion rates and profits please let me know as I would love to find ones who track 100%.

To those affiliates who think this is pie-in-the-sky, I have to say you're being naive. Either that or you're protecting your own skimming operation.

There is a LOT of money flowing here and I think some sort of an independent auditing system has to be the next step, otherwise these programs are going to stop recruiting new quality affiliates and lose the ones they have. Or conversely, there's a market opportunity for someone to come out and do this and gain a massive amount of affiliate market share.

I am not a connisseur of the gaming industry, but I have been around the block in the business world, the internet and affiliate marketing... And if this outsider's opinion has any value to you, I suggest all affiliates begin taking this more seriously and demand better from all affiliate programs. Perhaps an informal union is in order? After all, it's only your hard-earned money and time...

I will be closely watching as this unfolds as it will affect my promotional plans to a great extent.

**Dominique** · 10-13-2005 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by stdio

There is a LOT of money flowing here and I think some sort of an independent auditing system has to be the next step, otherwise these programs are going to stop recruiting new quality affiliates and lose the ones they have. Or conversely, there's a market opportunity for someone to come out and do this and gain a massive amount of affiliate market share.

I agree with you on this. There should be periodic, unannounced audits. The system just lends itself to skimming (we call it shaving).

However, the guy who wrote the article at the start of this thread is a certifiable disgruntled nut who has been making unsubstantiated crazy claims for years.

While there is no real control in place, people who work at it and think outside the box make very nice money in this industry. Also, there is such a wide choice of affiliate programs, you can always toss those you make no money with or whom you don't trust. If you go to the conventions you are able to speak to the people and get a feel for them.

Also, most of us conduct tests and checks by having friends sign up under our code or signing up under each other's codes and watching the statistics.

Many track clicks also and we are aware of discrepancies.

There is always a certain percentage of lost traffic - it varies from program to program and I do not recollect the figures. maybe someone can help out with that.

An independent auditing system would be a really great thing.

The APCW is doing some of this with programs who volunteer for it.

**yorktown** · 10-13-2005 02:52 PM

Like greedygirl said, Claude Levy is well known by us 'old timers.' One thing to note, Claude had utterly destroyed Starnet. He brought a $300 Million Market Capitalization Stock down to pennies in a period of 4-5 months. He warned them and all he was arguing over was $300,000.

So, don't completely write this guy off.

**axl** · 10-13-2005 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by aleph

I have to say that he is probably closer to the truth than most people would like to acknowledge or admit. To side one's view on the other end of the spectrum of honesty is just as ridiculous people.

I 100% agree with your comments aleph to think otherwise would be rather ignorant. Sadly as pointed out we currently dont have much recourse. I do hear however that a lot is going on behind the scenes so maybe some day soon we can breath a sigh of relief.

**elgoog** · 10-13-2005 06:03 PM

*lurking*

**aleph** · 10-13-2005 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by axl

I 100% agree with your comments aleph to think otherwise would be rather ignorant. Sadly as pointed out we currently dont have much recourse. I do hear however that a lot is going on behind the scenes so maybe some day soon we can breath a sigh of relief.

We would all have a more prosperous situation for affiliates even the

super affiliates, if more of us would stop with the BS ... I said it once and I

will say it again, you are lucky if you are getting 10% of what you are really

earning for most of these reputable casinos for the lifetime of the customers

that you brought in ... if this was not the case you

would have exactly what bb1webs was referring to and that is

TRUE transparency on the stats that really matter ... you will NEVER

get that because then you would really see what this business is

all about.

**Oneguy2nv** · 10-14-2005 12:01 AM

Originally Posted by aleph

... if this was not the case you

would have exactly what bb1webs was referring to and that is

TRUE transparency on the stats that really matter ... you will NEVER

get that because then you would really see what this business is

all about.

Him and I have discussed this at length.

Ask yourself this.

Why have we never seen an affiliate program audited by PWC or some other reputable firm??

**Maxfalcon1** · 10-15-2005 04:40 AM

Why have we never seen an affiliate program audited by PWC or some other reputable firm??

That is an excellent and so funny remark! I would laugh to see "percentage" payouts of each affiliate program, representing what they have paid compared to what they should have paid!

Then we would choose the ones that have the higher percentage payouts!

Could this become a reality????

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