Thread: MAJOR Terms and Conditions Changes coming at Referback - Page 15

Agree with Dean on this one BB1, anytime you land a whale and they lose all their dough on the first deposit ... a larger marjority will move on to the next casino.

Given that in a casino, the majority of people LOSE, it is easy to see why Dean is probably right on this one.

If they win, naturally, they stick around... but that's a big IF.

my 2cents

ps: edited to add - my conclusions probably aren't scientific... that's just been the case with me.

In the civilized world where I grew up you honored set agreements. If you decide to change terms later it was going FORWARD - not backward. If Referback wants a unattractive program for new webmasters that is really not my concern. IT IS my concern when they are in default of agreements made with me previous to those changes.

No Kidding... Including hand shakes

There are no acknowldedgements of concerns, there are no communications that they are working on it or willing to work on it. No responses to legitimate questions.

This should tell you something.. I have already moved on to greener pastures. I don't think referback has any intentions of working on this with us. Personally I could never trust a program like this again, that came up with such outrages terms and condition changes.

I have been a mamber here for a couple of years now. I am generally not someone who posts much - I'm lazy! And I'd rather be quiet and only speak when I feel its important. This is a great message board and even though I haven't met a single one of you, I highly respect the individuals who have pulled this together.

I have not promoted Referback. About two years ago we applied and were declined. A year later we started getting obviously good rankings and they were breaking down the door. We told them to take a hike. If we weren't good enough earlier, why then suddenly? They offered a good deal, but we stuck to our principles.

Anyways, to get to the point. First of all, the lack of response, and the complete ignorance in the response to date astounds me. Imagine this happened in the "real" bricks and mortar world! There would be outcry! Now let me qualify, this kind of thing does happen. The financial services industry is notorious for it (I know, it made me too old too fast). However, their communication would be a tad better than we've seen here. I digress again.

Having mulled over this for a week now, I have grave concerns. Taking down banners is one thing, but no solution. I GUARANTEE YOU NOW that in a couple of months time, Referback will handpick a couple of you guys and offer better deals, with a precondition that you will keep quiet about it. It's not rocket science. Every management meeting they have I promise you they say something like "****, look what we've paid affiliates this month, it's crazy, we must do something about it". Then a big kahuna walks into a meeting one day and says "We need to cut costs, where do we start?". The rest is history, and in this case in our pockets.

I feel that this thing needs a more cencerted effort than doing a three page level down blacklist and dumping banners. There is one reality: How can we guarantee our players consistent terms with these casinos, if we have experienced the opposite. I for one take this very seriously, and take it personal if a player gets into trouble with a casino where I sent her.

So I guess what I am saying is we need to actually be more assertive. It is clear that these people are not here to negotiate. You need to come to the table to do that and the room is empty.

I look forward to a beer (or six) in Vegas to discuss this further. There is no overnight solution. All I am saying is that if we do not put our foot down now, other programs will start saying hey, these guys actually roll over easily. Let's roll 'em.

Phew. Thoughts?

Nice post, Justred.

The question is, will we have left it too late by the time we get to Vegas?

Originally Posted by axl

Do you understand that by continuing to send players to the referback properties that you may in fact be “legally” implying that you fully accept their terms? I understand for the last week you and others have been saying your moving on or removing links, but your sites (assuming those in your signatures are your sites) are still featuring numerous referback properties.

The last several days have been very quiet on this forum and on others. Are affiliates accepting these terms without a bigger fight? I too agree with justred, the time to put our foots down is quickly getting away from us, actions speak louder than words; act now before it is too late! If we wait until Vegas to address this further our coffins will be sealed!

If referback is no longer open to communication maybe it is finally time to start nailing some spikes into their coffin!

Exactly, I agree 100% with this post.....

For some people the link replacement is a lot more difficult than others, depending on site size and setup, and available time.

I will be lucky if mine are all gone by coming Monday.

While I personally have no problems removing all the links to Fortune, Vegas Partners, Partnerlogic and Referback, I know many others are scared to do it because they fear they will lose their income.

If you can make money with one program, you can make it with another. In a short period of time things will just shift. Also, the reason to drop these programs is because you will not make the money you have grown used to. If your concern is financial, dropping them is the best course of action.

There are also people with contracts that have to be filled or they,too, are in breach.

I don't think pressuring people is the way to go - we were there years ago when those programs covered up our sites with scumware. Pressure doesn't work. I personally resent it now, too. Back then I was the one applying it...

I think it would be a lot more productive to list replacement programs - look through their T&Cs and pick ones that have no nasty clauses.

Showing how the financial deals with other, comparable programs are so much better will help too.

It's a lot easier to reinstate a program than it is to pull it - to reinstate you simply add it. Pulling means finding suitable replacement and exchanging listings one by one.

Ok, back outside, one of the remodeling guys is calling me.