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Hello, I am a new affiliate here on cap and I’m thinking about what deal that should be the best for me. My webbpage is for people who wants to start gambling on sport, i have a few reviews, some tips and so on…
I dont think that i have any customers that have a lots of money to spend the most of them are probibly just want to play for fun and have a good bonus.
What amount do i get from a revenue deal from 10 costumers that deposit 1000 euro in total if all of them lose the money? if i have 30% of net revenue? its not 300€ right?
A Cpa deal on the same page will give me 30€ x10 new players.
Is it hard to get a CPA deal on a lots of sportbookers or is it just to ask for it?
What is the deal you all use?
/Viktor
Welcome Viktor,
I’m going to give you an answer based on my own 9 years of experience in this industry… that doesn’t mean I’m right but hopefully might give you some prospect.
So… on my case, I basically never go for CPA, no matter what the industry is.
Even if I can get only 10 players in a certain month, chances are that I might get 1 player that will spend some and perhaps even will keep on coming back every month give spend some. I’m on the gambling industry, I figure that I should be my profits too. Sharing is higher risk but often higher profit in the long run.
In other words, if you don’t want to take any risk, CPA is the way to go and with time you learn better how much your traffic is worth.
If you don’t mind taking risks of getting nothing some times, profit sharing is the best… on my opinion.
Thank you for your time.
I guess you are right, to earn money for the rest of my life would be cool, but i have read about some affiliate programs that cut you of if you dont get 5-10 new active cusumers every month? Is those kind of scams not that common? I prefer to work with the famous spoortbook brands.
Maybe i could try the both ways in the begining.
Is it possible to change the affiliate deal from CPA to share after a few month if I thing I would earn more that way?
Do you have an idea how much my 30% share should be for every 1000€ after all the Bonus payout, administation fee and fraud costs?
Sorry for my poor english and thanks for the assistance.
Welcome Viktor
Marcelo is IMO spot on in his viewDo you have an idea how much my 30% share should be for every 1000€ after all the Bonus payout, administation fee and fraud costs?
All you need is one whale and this question is mute :hattip:
Brad
Rev share always rules with one exception and that is Poker Rooms which offer Rakeback. CPA is preferable in that case only.
CPA is not a good way to go but in some cases you may not have a choice. I personally stay away from those deals and go with rev:hattip:
Personally i would stick to Rev Share or a possible Hybrid Deal.
First you protect yourself and the site. don’t get fooled by the fast CPA catch.
I mean say the site offers you 100 Euros for each player. Those players must lose all their money… trust me the casino will stop your payment.
If they lose money you will not make money in all cases. The lure of CPA is to get you there, and then when you take a CPA, if your players rake huge… loss 1000 Euro well your out 200 Euro. Even with bonuses.. becsuase those bonuses are played back anyway.
You should get 30 percent of 1000 Euro lost.
Now say your players only deposit 50 Euro and lose and only deposit one time.
Do you think the site will pay you 100 Euro? No they will come back saying fraud this fraud that.. ect…
trust me it happend to me last year. I was promised to be paid by a well known established affiliate program for CPA Poker Players.
I lost over 2K and am still fighting for this money.
CPA is a LOSS LOSS…. the room will not pay you if they lose, dot bother reading their site because yes they say win or lose, but at the end of the day they will stop your payment thats a fact we see everyday on forums.
Hybrid deals are a little better, take a smaller CPA and rev share combined. So if you get whales you still make a good chunk.
If you get poor players they are more likely to just pay it to have you continue to bring players.
If they say you must bring 5 players say bye bye.. Min payment to cash to large, bye bye.. do not go for CPA my advice….it only hurts you..
On the flip side i can see the point, many affiliates have tried scamming them as well, so in return the scam back…
Affiliates will send fake traffic to make CPAs high, then get players to stop, or something along those lines..
For casinos anyway it would make more sense to take rev share.. but one that does not have neg carry over.
Hope this helps…
Just do a google search on CPA non payment affiliates or CPA scams, you will see many sites who have scammed us all and vica versa.
Cheers
Hi GFPC,
I am in total agreement with all that you have advised and CPA hunters are a waste of time. Get the best revenue share and even a good hybrid deal will do. Think of the future and not a quick fix………..Cheers KeithThank you all for the advice, I will stick to the revenue deals…
Any more things I should watch out for?
I prefere to work with companys that are safe and will give me my money rather than just earn big money, is the casinoaffiliateprograms “certificate” a good hint abouth who to work with?
How hard is it to get the costumers to use my affiliate link? is there a lots of companys where i can get a “bonus-code” that says they are my players?
ironman2000;192847 wrote:Hi GFPC,
I am in total agreement with all that you have advised and CPA hunters are a waste of time. Get the best revenue share and even a good hybrid deal will do. Think of the future and not a quick fix………..Cheers KeithThanks Keith,
All based on experience lol. We live and learn right!!
If we all help each other out most of us can avoid these traps.
Plus it adds good karma!!
Cheers
Steve
I think for a new affiliate I would look for a hybrid – it puts a little $ in your pocket to help you grow. Then after 3 months or so – work out a revshare. A hybrid system is not a long term choice but can help you get on your feet.
If you do grow and work your program any affiliate manager will help you reach your goals.Happy New year:hattip:
GFPC;192825 wrote:I mean say the site offers you 100 Euros for each player. Those players must lose all their money… trust me the casino will stop your payment.If they lose money you will not make money in all cases. The lure of CPA is to get you there, and then when you take a CPA, if your players rake huge… loss 1000 Euro well your out 200 Euro. Even with bonuses.. becsuase those bonuses are played back anyway.
Hi Steve,
you raise some good points. I think Revenue Share is great for an established affiliate who knows their target customer base and perhaps has a mailing list or a forum, community or blog. These types of affiliate love the revenue share because they know that they can build up a good base of players.
Not sure what you mean by “players must lose all their money”. Why would a player referred to casino/sportsbook/poker room have to lose all their money to release a CPA?
I think this raises the notion that as an affiliate you should read the terms of the commission model you are accepting. In most cases affiliate programs ask for a minimum deposit to release the CPA. I don’t know any programs that force a player to lose all his money before they pay out, that’s the type of affiliate deal you don’t want.
In short, CPA offers a guarantee and low risk of a big winning player. In my experience affiliates who take CPA deals have great content, targeted traffic and choose reputable programs.
Of course there are consequences of Net Revenue Share. Where you also make mention of the “one (or more) big loser” phenomenon you should also consider that you can also encounter the “one (or more) big winner” phenomenon. This could mean that any revenues that end up producing players who win leave you with a negative balance at the end of the month. This means no commission. Also, watch out for programs that carry over negative balances. I’ve known affiliates to shut down their account because they can never get back above zero.
I hope this overview gives you both the pros and cons of CPA and Net Revenue models and helps you decide on how you want to monetize your traffic.
Hi Adam,
You have some good points as well. You really think things out well. Thank you for your insight. Its great.
I agree, CPA can be good for new affiliates who start out, but in most cases you need to get quality traffic. That is hard to do when you are building a database. You do not have control of your player base or influence.
Therefore, you run the risk of the affiliate program informing you they need to hold your payment until your players rake more. This has happened so many times. Its very well documented.
As a new affiliate, I would not want anyone to go through this, as they put hard work and energy into their new business. Then get the sudden shock!!
So for me if i had to start all over from the start i would choose Hybrid deals.
However if an affiliate works it out with the site that’s fine. But here’s what i think is so crucial. Read the terms of contract is for sure a must.
One other thing as a new affiliate i believe you must ask if you choose CPA solely.
You need to ask your affiliate manager if there are any reasons why a payment for CPA will be withheld for any reason?I think you need written documentation from your AM that will assure you, you will get paid no matter what. In writing. As there is to much room for error. Reasons for non payment include: rake to low to payout, affiliate fraud, player fraud, and various other things.
For obvious reasons affiliate fraud, and player fraud is a rightful cause for non payment, but low rake from players or poor quality should not.
I do agree if a site comes to you with a concern and says your players are of poor quality we must stop your CPA deal then that is ok, but any money owing should be paid in full as agreed.
That is the cost for allowing CPA for both the affiliate site and affiliate promoting them period.
I have first hand experience with this, so from now on i will only choose rev share, or hybrid deals. While i do this, i always get in writing what the terms are for the CPA release. You simply need to protect yourself and get written confirmation.
So if your payments are stopped, you have proof.. Its so important!!!
I maybe able to give more insight on this later… but sometimes its also worth negotiating a settlement in these cases just to move on. In all fairness to the affiliate sites, you cant expect them to loss money while you gain. Although its their responsibility to inform you when to stop if its an issue of poor quality players.
Anyway i have went through this, so its how i feel about it!!
Steve
adam.downing;192939 wrote:Hi Steve,you raise some good points. I think Revenue Share is great for an established affiliate who knows their target customer base and perhaps has a mailing list or a forum, community or blog. These types of affiliate love the revenue share because they know that they can build up a good base of players.
Not sure what you mean by “players must lose all their money”. Why would a player referred to casino/sportsbook/poker room have to lose all their money to release a CPA?
I think this raises the notion that as an affiliate you should read the terms of the commission model you are accepting. In most cases affiliate programs ask for a minimum deposit to release the CPA. I don’t know any programs that force a player to lose all his money before they pay out, that’s the type of affiliate deal you don’t want.
In short, CPA offers a guarantee and low risk of a big winning player. In my experience affiliates who take CPA deals have great content, targeted traffic and choose reputable programs.
Of course there are consequences of Net Revenue Share. Where you also make mention of the “one (or more) big loser” phenomenon you should also consider that you can also encounter the “one (or more) big winner” phenomenon. This could mean that any revenues that end up producing players who win leave you with a negative balance at the end of the month. This means no commission. Also, watch out for programs that carry over negative balances. I’ve known affiliates to shut down their account because they can never get back above zero.
I hope this overview gives you both the pros and cons of CPA and Net Revenue models and helps you decide on how you want to monetize your traffic.
Great info
Keep in mind that an affiliate program treats their affiliates as true partners. Make sure you have your goals and expectations laid out. Be up front with your AM with what you can bring to the table and why you are asking for xxCPA.
I have found that patience’s from both sides is the best policy. Long term reward is much better for both sides. I will admit that large CPA’s with little or no follow up is a huge red flag. I like to put myself in my affiliates shoes to get the most out of the relationship/ partnership. I like paying affiliates and hope to pay more affiliates more money in 2009. :hattip:Just to clarify, you mention a lot about ‘rake’ in particular – are you discussing specifically poker?
I agree with the case of having something documented as proof. This is essential – I’d advise that you have an email that can be verified by another CAP member or notarized – I believe that a public notary can verify and validate emails in this day and age if the email is hosted on a public service perhaps?
Steve has some good points. Again, read my post for other issues surrounding CPA, Revenue Share and Hybrid (combined CPA and Hybrid) deals.
Applause to Steve for bringing a good and beneficial discussion to CAP.
GFPC;193730 wrote:Hi Adam,You have some good points as well. You really think things out well. Thank you for your insight. Its great.
I agree, CPA can be good for new affiliates who start out, but in most cases you need to get quality traffic. That is hard to do when you are building a database. You do not have control of your player base or influence.
Therefore, you run the risk of the affiliate program informing you they need to hold your payment until your players rake more. This has happened so many times. Its very well documented.
As a new affiliate, I would not want anyone to go through this, as they put hard work and energy into their new business. Then get the sudden shock!!
So for me if i had to start all over from the start i would choose Hybrid deals.
However if an affiliate works it out with the site that’s fine. But here’s what i think is so crucial. Read the terms of contract is for sure a must.
One other thing as a new affiliate i believe you must ask if you choose CPA solely.
You need to ask your affiliate manager if there are any reasons why a payment for CPA will be withheld for any reason?I think you need written documentation from your AM that will assure you, you will get paid no matter what. In writing. As there is to much room for error. Reasons for non payment include: rake to low to payout, affiliate fraud, player fraud, and various other things.
For obvious reasons affiliate fraud, and player fraud is a rightful cause for non payment, but low rake from players or poor quality should not.
I do agree if a site comes to you with a concern and says your players are of poor quality we must stop your CPA deal then that is ok, but any money owing should be paid in full as agreed.
That is the cost for allowing CPA for both the affiliate site and affiliate promoting them period.
I have first hand experience with this, so from now on i will only choose rev share, or hybrid deals. While i do this, i always get in writing what the terms are for the CPA release. You simply need to protect yourself and get written confirmation.
So if your payments are stopped, you have proof.. Its so important!!!
I maybe able to give more insight on this later… but sometimes its also worth negotiating a settlement in these cases just to move on. In all fairness to the affiliate sites, you cant expect them to loss money while you gain. Although its their responsibility to inform you when to stop if its an issue of poor quality players.
Anyway i have went through this, so its how i feel about it!!
Steve
