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  1. #11
    Senior Member splinterfree's Avatar
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    my personal belief is that nothing will happen after election. but, within 2 years you'll see a lot of not only car flipping but proper popular revolt.

    the us economy will dive and consumption will fall by a 1/3. and the whole world will suffer. it is inevitable if you understand that america has been living in credit for quite a bit of time. to such an extent that the country owes more that it produces...i stand to be corrected on this stat. whether its obama or mccain, somebody will either have to inflate the currency or stop printing money (which they wont).

    the good news is that the USD is the world currency based on the brenton (or whatever its called) act. meaning that everybody takes USD as the common currency. the fact that USA gets to keep their own currency as their debt when inflation expands is good for USA (hardly for anyone else), is only in US's favour because its cheaper to pay debts.

    perhaps i have a crude way of putting my thought, and i admit that i'm not an expert, but i can't see the current situation having hit the bottom. its a bigger bubble than the dot.com era. we're ****ed mates

    tada...
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  2. #12
    Senior Member GamTrak's Avatar
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    Maybe we better all leave the US now then. I'm sure there is another country out there better than what we have here.

    The party is definatly over for living like the Jones! I think that this had to happen sooner or later. Bush has dug a huge friggen hole for us, but we never give up and we will "Rise from the ashes of the Bushes!"

    Everyone is living way beyond their means credit wise and although there will be some hard times for some I don't see the world coming to an end over this economic crisis this time.

    We are more prepared to deal with a recession by taking what we learned from the past to steer our way out of this as long as we have folks that offer good solutions and is smart enough to get it done.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member splinterfree's Avatar
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    gamtrak, unfortunately there is no place you can leave to that wont get affected by this. one thing chips was right about was that this whole financial fiasco wasnt started by bush. he only inherited the chaos from clinton, who actually was the last president who could've reverted the money printing frenzy...but the dot.com hassle played in his favour.

    remember the stock rise for companies that didnt have a business model? typicall wall st...

    on another note, isnt it weird that you get such obscure presidential nomineees? a woman, a black guy with a name which is one letter different from osama, and a ever losing candidate. seems to me like its an election for a scapegoat. but all of them attended the bilderberg foundation, so they know who to bow kosher to (as in pay dues to the rich ****ers).

    and who are we? pawns of change? when the rich get richer its ok, but when the rich get poorer the whole society pays. funnily enough, not in russia. the rich are getting poorer, and the government is only happy to nationalize. such irony...

    my point? america's election is the world's election. you can't call us names, we have just as much invested into it as americans do. you owe us so much money that if we asked it back all at once the world would crash finacially. not something cozy to sleep on...not really what you would call supremacy, is it?

    to add perspective to it, consider the fact that america's military budget is half the whole worlds military spending. there must be an agenda for all this armtwisting....

    p.s.

    renee thinks i'm paranoid. but even she agrees...somewhat
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  4. #14
    Senior Member GamTrak's Avatar
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    I was being somewhat sarcastic in my reply. You have some good points.
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by splinterfree View Post
    my personal belief is that nothing will happen after election. but, within 2 years you'll see a lot of not only car flipping but proper popular revolt.

    the us economy will dive and consumption will fall by a 1/3. and the whole world will suffer. it is inevitable if you understand that america has been living in credit for quite a bit of time. to such an extent that the country owes more that it produces...i stand to be corrected on this stat. whether its obama or mccain, somebody will either have to inflate the currency or stop printing money (which they wont).

    the good news is that the USD is the world currency based on the brenton (or whatever its called) act. meaning that everybody takes USD as the common currency. the fact that USA gets to keep their own currency as their debt when inflation expands is good for USA (hardly for anyone else), is only in US's favour because its cheaper to pay debts.

    perhaps i have a crude way of putting my thought, and i admit that i'm not an expert, but i can't see the current situation having hit the bottom. its a bigger bubble than the dot.com era. we're ****ed mates

    tada...
    This is just from memory so correct me if I'm wrong.
    the economy is roughly 11-13 trillion ( I heard both 11 and 13 , before credit crisis)
    we now owe about 10 trillion (53 trillion in unfunded liaibility if you include ssi and medicare)
    Deficits:
    Reagan went from 700 billion to 3 trillion, I'm not too sure about this but I believe Bush (41'st president) & Clinton added about 2 trillion but then Clinton had the 5 billion budget surplus in the second term.

    Bush(43) 5 to 10 trillion (including bailout $$). (remember the national debt clock running out of digits a few weeks ago.)

    We just had the first quarter of negative GDP of about -.3% I believe. A recession is defined as two consecutive quarters of negative growth. Q2 was 3.3% growth.

    China has bee growing about 10% a year however, their Q3 was only 9%.

    We need to create about 100-150,000 jobs each month to keep up with people entering workforce. we've lost about 760,000 jobs since Jan.

    Durring the depression unemployment was about 25%. now it's about 6.1%, The lowest it's ever been was 3.8%. Generally it hovers about 5% which means everyone that wants a job has a job. I remember waiting in the long unemployment line in 1991. It was about 10% unemployment back then. Took quite a while to find a job.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member allfreechips's Avatar
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    Look what happened when Hoover upped the taxes on a much smaller percent of the wealthy during a recesion. People need to look at the reaction of the payroll tax, capitol gains tax and other Palosi/ reid taxes not just the few percent were getting screwed on over 120Know..

    I predict if Obama is the man, 6 months into it we will hear somthing like, "The american people need to understand the Bush politics put us worse off than even I iomagined, we will need to call on the Americans to rise up and accept a 10% increase in taxes across the board to resolve this matter left to us"
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  7. #17
    Senior Member GamTrak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slotplayer View Post
    This is just from memory so correct me if I'm wrong.
    With out looking anything up, I'd say that you have painted a good picture of what's up!
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  9. #18
    Senior Member GamTrak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allfreechips View Post
    Look what happened when Hoover upped the taxes on a much smaller percent of the wealthy during a recesion. People need to look at the reaction of the payroll tax, capitol gains tax and other Palosi/ reid taxes not just the few percent were getting screwed on over 120Know..

    I predict if Obama is the man, 6 months into it we will hear somthing like, "The american people need to understand the Bush politics put us worse off than even I iomagined, we will need to call on the Americans to rise up and accept a 10% increase in taxes across the board to resolve this matter left to us"
    I think that everyone upset by Obama's plan should stop bitching about it and find a way to make more money so that you don't feel the pinch of having your tax break expire after all of these years of getting "welfare" off the back of the tax payers.

    It's time to PAY your FAIR share! It's only 3% for christ sake.
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  10. #19
    Moderator - Big Kahuna Dominique's Avatar
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    Once again, we can't just continue to increase the national debt.

    Doesn't anyone have any common sense?
    dominique




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  11. #20
    Senior Member AmCan's Avatar
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    I'm really sick of hearing how "Obama's going to raise taxes, just like Hoover did". Obama has announced increase in income tax for those in top bracket (everything over $349,0000), Hoover raised income taxes across the board, by 25%-60%+, only 250% to 600% times more of an increase than Obama is discussing. Obama will raise top tax rate by from 35% to 39% an increase of less than 10% for all dollars earned over $349,000.

    You folks really should read some history and get the facts straight.
    SEE Tax Tables for rates at bottom of page: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf

    The Hoover Tax increase:
    The Revenue Act of 1932 (June 6, 1932, ch. 209, 47 Stat. 169) raised United States tax rates across the board, with the rate on top incomes rising from 25 percent to 63 percent. The estate tax was doubled and corporate taxes were raised by almost 15 percent.

    The provisions of the act applied to the taxable year of 1932 and all subsequent taxable years.

    It was signed into law by President Herbert Hoover.
    the only source with some details: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenue_Act_of_1932


    So basically because Charlie Gasperino or the Fox "news" folks keep saying "he's doing the exact wrong thing, just like hoover", you guys are running around telling us the Sky is Falling. The truth is that Obama's "tax increase" is restoring rates to where they were when there was a budget surplus -2000 and are considerably smaller than Hoover's huge tax increase. You can still argue it's too much, but your claims are about as valid as those who compare George Bush to Hitler.

    ----------
    Dom:
    Once again, we can't just continue to increase the national debt.

    Doesn't anyone have any common sense?
    No. We keep adding more and more debt on to slow down the panic and the US dollar keeps getting stronger. Apparently the rest of the world think US debt is still rate "AAA as Sub-Prime"
    Last edited by AmCan; 11-02-2008 at 09:56 AM.
    AmCan

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