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  1. #1
    Senior Member CK44m's Avatar
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    Default Anyone else ripped off by pokerstars?

    Sour news - one of the most established in the poker industry has decided to go around screwing affs from now on...

    Signed up with them sometime ago and they offered me a nice fat CPA deal - so i thought: why not, got nothing to lose right? Well after a few months of sending them quality traffic (SEO driven German traffic, pure quality) they get back to me and try to drive the CPA down. I tell them the truth - if you are not happy with the results, there are others that will be willing to accommodate this traffic at the same price, i do not have to stick with you. So fine, after some chatting we both decide the deal expires in 4 weeks and will no longer be valid.

    Having previously had only good experience with them it never even crossed my mind i should inquire about the future. I though: well its been good so far, im sure we will be able to work some sort of middle rate for all that traffic that has not converted yet but surely will even once the deal expires. And how surprised was i to learn that i will NOT BE PAID A CENT for all the players that convert once the deal is over?!?

    What a shambolic deed - first ask an affiliate to send you as much traffic as you can and then decide you terminate the deal with 4 weeks notice. And yeah, all those players that have downloaded the software or registered but not become real new depositors you get as a bonus, right? The affiliate is out of the equation so why would you care...

    Anyone similar experiences? I am seriously disappointed with Stars, never thought a company of such profile would have to resort to tricks reserved for rouges...
  2. #2
    Senior Member splinterfree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CK44m View Post
    it never even crossed my mind i should inquire about the future
    although they were harsh in their behaviour, you cant hold them for it. this is a business, not charity. your failure to clear out your future cannot be blamed on pokerstars (they are not in breach of terms and conditions). particularly when you are dealing with CPA which is a rotten potato from the start.

    and generally affiliate programs dont like to be pushed around particularly when you give them a "take it or leave it" deal while you are already making CPA money from them. since they hold their finger on the button, its just too easy for them to press it and turn their deal off.

    dont get me wrong, i'm not defending pokerstars, instead i'm kinda saying that its your fault. when dealing with CPA you got to be super careful and have all the terms laid out. hell, you should know all the terms even when you are on rev share! otherwise you can only blame yourself...
  3. #3
    Senior Member CK44m's Avatar
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    Default

    i dont expect them to continue the deal once they have given me a notice that they are not happy.

    what is disturbing is that they are not prepared to pay for the players i have delivered them - not even the most standard rate that is available for any new affiliate signing up with them. you send someone players and you expect to be paid for them. OK i did not assume there might be complications in the future - but they refuse to pay basic rate for players I HAVE DELIVERED them.

    or are you trying to tell me you would not see this as a scam were you in my position? say you have agreed a deal with someone and after a while they say they dont like it and want to stop it. fine, the deal stops but you forget to take them off some sites and still send them a few players. the least you can expect is to be paid a basic rate for those players because you have delivered them!

    this is supposed to be a partnership not a rip off mechanism - if you cant trust your partners (and pokerstars happens to be one of the most established in the business, we are not talking about a shady operator from a monkey island) where is this heading? last thing i want is to assume everyone i work with will rip me off and take necessary precautions every single time i agree on a deal...
  4. #4
    Senior Member AmCan's Avatar
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    Well i agree with you, if they made a deal, unless they say you're fraudulent players, then it's crap.

    I saw this:
    this is supposed to be a partnership not a rip off mechanism

    Well forget about that, it's not a partnership. It's a commissioned sales agreement. The only times you tend here the word partnership from an affiliate manager is when they recruit you and when they explain how you aren't going to paid.

    It's great that all the affiliate programs talk about partnerships, but it's not true. You are 1 of hundreds/thousands of "partners" and they treat each on separate and make their decisions based on $$$, thats not a partnership, its contracted sales based on commission. I'm fine with it, but just don't shovel me this partnership BS
    AmCan

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  6. #5
    Senior Member CK44m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmCan View Post
    I'm fine with it, but just don't shovel me this partnership BS
    Im very sorry for you AmCan if you think thats BS. I value the people i work with and have never been treated that way by anyone in the past 5 years i have been in this industry. You show respect and you get it back.
  7. #6
    Senior Beer Member TheGooner's Avatar
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    I agree with AmCam, it is a commissioned sales agreement, and with only one side able to set the rules it leaves the affiliate with only one option - take it or leave it.

    Having said that dealing with some of the affiliate managers can be quite pleasant - but that is still not really a partnership - when they move you can quikcly see that.

    Perhaps we will have to agree that if it's a partnership it's a not an EQUAL partnership ...
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    AmCan (07-06-2008)

  9. #7
    Senior Member AmCan's Avatar
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    Don't feel sorry for me. i have plenty of friends in the industry, many of them work for companies that tell me they are my partners. I've had some friends get fired or quit when their employers did things to their "partners" that were adverserial.

    You spend enough time in an industry and you know who's who and what's what's what.

    I sort of agree with gooner, that it's a one way street, BUT not always for the affiliate programs. When i was sending 100s of players a month i had a lot more clout than today. If you have an active stream of 100s to 1000s of new players each month, you can gain the upperhand and bleed the programs for guarantees, prepay's etc.

    An affiliate program that can change the terms of our agreement without negotiation isn't a partner.
    AmCan

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  10. #8
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    Guys I am moving this to the PokerStars area to see if they have any response. I am a little confused though CK did they agree to extend the terms for four additional weeks at a given CPA rate? Were you paid or not paid for the players during the initial period of the aggreement? Were player value issues discussed?
  11. #9
    Moderator - Big Kahuna Dominique's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmCan View Post
    Well forget about that, it's not a partnership. It's a commissioned sales agreement.

    Agreed, so it is.

    The smart programs, though, know where they see potential and do all they can to help the affiliate make more money - because both sides profit.

    Now, CPA is always a touchy situation, but in poker rakeback has pretty much forced CPA on us. With rev share, you get to have the player until he gets good, then a rakeback guy will come along and steal him. So, if you are one of the people bringing new players in, you pretty much have to settle for CPA.

    The poker industry should realize that brand new players are valuable. Without them, the experienced folks would have no one to win over.

    Ah heck, don't even get me started on poker.
    dominique




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    splinterfree (07-06-2008)

  13. #10
    Senior Member CK44m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Professor View Post
    Guys I am moving this to the PokerStars area to see if they have any response. I am a little confused though CK did they agree to extend the terms for four additional weeks at a given CPA rate? Were you paid or not paid for the players during the initial period of the aggreement? Were player value issues discussed?
    Well i was given 4 weeks notice and told the deal will expire after those 4 weeks (that was no extension, that was just 4 weeks notice). I was paid for all players when the deal was in place and during the 4 last weeks.

    What i didnt get paid for though were all those players that have converted when the deal was over - not even the most standard CPA rate listed on their website. So in effect i could have opened another account in a completely different name and send traffic though it - and i would get paid the standard rate offered to all new affiliates.

    And yes, the player value issues have been mentioned - but it was a monologue. I refuse to believe that if two or three other leading poker rooms have an X player value and decide to pay a fat CPA for them (the talk is about German players, defo one of the most profitable folk in the industry) and pokerstars tells me they have a player value of X/3? That is BS - and they never give you any insight into what the real value is, all they do is talk about it.
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