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Cpays – An insider reveals all

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  • #599142
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    This is a serious warning for anybody even considering working with them, for those who are working with them – watch out. After having bad experienes with them ourselves, we had a new colleague join us after previously working in this group and revealed the practices of this company.

    1. Competing with Affiliate Interests –

    The company is engaged in rampant spamming as most affiliates are well aware of this. They actively seek to compete with their affiliates and have an entire division looking not to support affiliates but to find out what they do and to replicate and copy their activities. Blackhatting, content scraping, spamming – whatever it takes to weed out affiliates is what their mantra is. As they claim they are a “marketing agency” themselves it is in their best interests to make as few payments as possible to affiliates – this is incentivized in their arrangements with the actual operators. The say they’ll work with you but this is how they use you until they don’t need you anymore when they decide to screw you. They’ll go out of their way to suck up to top affiliates including sending huge prepay advances and sending them expensive gifts. Our colleague tells us of a big affiliate they have in Asia and another in Europe they are doing anything to bring back into the fold after screwing them over royally.

    2. T/c Manipulation –

    Cpays constantly change the t/c and the agreements with affiliates constantly. They’ll use a bait and trap scheme where they try to bait new affiliates by offering a great deal and “trap” them later by changing the T/c. They’ll claim that there are bonus abusers signing up, that their “client” has changed or that the account manager has changed. As many affiliates know, there are more problems with this group than anybody. There is now the issue with them changing the links for tracking. This is done as a ploy to cheat somewhat semi or non-active affiliates of their traffic as they are the ones unlikely to change the links. They do this from time to time to rip off traffic.

    3. Stealing of Content and Brands

    Not only content, affiliate earnings but also brands. Look at 32Vegas, this is esentially a knock off of 32Red and they’ve got other stuff in the pipeline. They keep coming up with new brands because after one brand has it’s reputation destroyed, they’ll just use another. You’ll see a whole slew of new brands come out soon that they’ll promote to existing players that affiliates will never see a penny of credit from.

    Affiliate content is stolen without hesitation and is promoted within the company.

    4. The affiliate gets screwed in their operation. As Playtech is the provider, players don’t have an issue with their casinos, it’s the affiliates that get screwed. When they start a new brand they really pump up with affiliates the new brand, once they get enough traffic to the brand they can then afford to screw the affiliates. Once enough players get to the casino, cross marketing to those players and stealing traffic from other brands is enough to support an acceptable number of new player inflows.

    5. Stealing players – they constantly direct market the players you bring in to one brand to their other brands without any credit given to affiliates. So say they pay you 35-40% CPA for a player , they will try whatever they can to get them to signup for another brand so they don’t have to pay out lifetime earnings to affiliates. Their staff is incentivized to break deals where they have to pay out lifetime earnings. They prefer CPA deals over revshare.

    6. Reselling traffic without credit – Also if you send them traffic then you need to be aware of where this traffic goes, as they’ve got all sorts of remant ad resales which they resell to other operators for up to $500 CPA in which the original sender will get 0.

    7. Excuses –

    They are trained to have a bunch of canned excuses:

    a. When the agreement suddenly changes without the affiliates knowledge – this is b/c the previous account manager didn’t pass the info on or that their computer systems have problems. They’ll apologize and are very sincere, but the reality is that it was their original intent to deceive.

    b. Blaming Empire or any other company – club dice, carnival brands owned by Empire Online. They also have a terrible reputation but Cpays will blame Empire for anything and everything . This company is closely linked to Empire online as most know and they deal with the same group of scumbags that run a number of Playtech casinos.

    c. if they want to get on your good side they’ll say that they’ve got a new account manager and the past problems are solved but the reality is that the same scumbags run this company and it will never change (see below). Don’t believe that a new account manger will change anything about them.

    ______________________

    Most of the staff of Cpays that stay get either so sick of their practices and quit in disgust (that’s how we recruited) or they are old veterans that are so used to cheating their affiliates it’s become second nature. This is the reason why affiliates get so frustrated since they often deal with total novices.

    Henry Korchia runs the operation under Eyal and they will tell you that they were #1 in egaming review or some other industry award which was actually paid for. Most affiliates know they are a scam operation and I would urge affiliates to go elsewhere.

    If you do send them traffic accept no lower than $350 CPA (they pay nearly $500 cpa for some regions) and be aware of rev-share deals with them. If so ask for up front payment on a number of players, otherwise don’t even work with them. IN fact if you are even remotely ethical, I would avoid them altogether since by working with them you are supporting a bunch of unethical bastards.

    #720250
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I agree along with so many others!

    greek39

    #720252
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    This is so sad… But something we all felt about this organization for a long time.

    Maybe we should have a decertification poll. For a LONG time, I have wondered (along with probably 90% of the board members here) why CPays is still certified at CAP. Does any of this bear any weight?? I would think so.

    #720257
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I would have to say CP should not be here on CAP. This is a shady place and they will not turn to a good program, just will not happen and there are other programs taking on some the she shady practices this program is using and still remaining certified. I understand it is important to have a company here at CAP for communication interest but this place has shown over and over they have no intentions of communicating and they certainly do not intend to change anything they do marketing wise.sneaky.gif

    #720260
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    The problem with Cpays compared to other programs is that you’ll really don’t know them unless you spend more time with them. They’ll make good on a few things (make calls, send you an advance, smooth talk you at conferences) but they operate dirty on the backend (shifting players to different brands, spamming your listing). The result is that you’ll make a bit of money with them but you won’t get a good feeling from doing it in the long term. They’re the quintessential “wolf in sheep’s clothing” and will eat you alive while you’re not aware of it.

    A lot of their staff circulate from CPartners, IOG, Tradal and other Israel-based operations. But more than the staff the core is just crooked lead by Yael and Henry.

    Though we stopped working with them, this forum is valuable for affiliates. They don’t do the things worthy of decertification – ie. not paying affiliates, cheating players but they do the things that are simply unethical and counterproductive to their partners – spamming, blackhatting, stealing traffic etc. etc.

    I simply want people to be aware of the practices before they consider committing more with them and realize the type of company this is. My colleague has told me a lot more even more serious stuff they do which we won’t get into.

    #720265
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I thought Yael left years ago.

    I am also not aware of crossing personell with CPartners, IOG, Tradal and other Israel-based operations?

    Although Tradal would be logical….

    #720285
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Nope he’s still there, though there may be several Yaels. Yael runs the show there all right, he just doesn’t show up.

    As for crossing personnel, what I meant is that a lot of the staff circulate among these companies. They are competitors but they recruit from one another, so I’ve experienced the same manager who gets fired from Cpartners go to cpays, then quits then ends up at IOG and then ending up at Tradal. All at the same time passing affiliate info and intelligence along.

    Tradal is a partner there though with today’s announcement of PartyGaming acquiring EOL this may no longer be the case.

    The biggest problem with the Israeli firms is that “confidential” information from one company tends to easily move on the the next company and that b/c the staff move around, their unscrupulous practices tend to also circulate. These employees have base salaries that are not high (about $1-$1.5K/mo) so they need to make it up in incentive bonuses and this means that stolen data and unscrupulous business practices are encouraged. These same employees are also affiliate marketers on the side for other companies in the industry – all fuelled by stolen data caused by low salaries.

    I can’t say the people who work there are bad, after all my colleague we recruited used to work there, it’s just that the environment there breeds a certain type and it’s highly encouraged by their management.

    One thing I forgot to mention is how they do their spamming and hacking. In Israel there are many Russian immigrants, Cpays hires a division of Russian hackers/spammers who are PhD level – the best around. Their only job is to figure out (at $1k / mo) how to blackhat and compete with affiliates. It’s starting to be common practice with the Israeli marketing agencies.

    #720334
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I agree 100% tcweb and can prove some of it. I often refer to them as the Mediterranean triangle. Your post reinforces what I logged over the past year.

    greek39

    #720346
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    Dominique wrote:
    I thought Yael left years ago.

    I am also not aware of crossing personell with CPartners, IOG, Tradal and other Israel-based operations?

    Although Tradal would be logical….
    What other programs operate from Israel? Gpromo…as far as I know.
    I guess we need a list; Not to be discriminating, just to look out for.

    #720391
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Not all programs from Israel are bad. This type of discrimination is just as bad as racism.

    One example of a stellar program from this region is Bright Share. You cannot possibly have a nicer staff to work with.

    But I do agree some stuff with Casino Pays does not add up.

    #720395
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Most certainly agree antoine, but a vast majority do. I could post roughly 100 spam sites from Casino Partners. The spam changes weekly kinda rotates from Casino Tropez, Clubdice, Carnival then back to a bit of Empire stuff. Empire being from Cyprus, very interesting little triangle.

    A few months ago I received a call from Casino Partners. They wanted to know how I was doing and if it would be possible to increase their exposure. Certainly not I told them not until you stop scraping my site. Within two hours the Casino Tropez splash pages defaulted to a Google search pages. Well that should be proof enough. In regards to Cpays well they just don’t talk to me.

    greek39

    #720415
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Hi everybody,

    Unfortunately I wasn’t able to reply here since our account was disabled from posting and I also spent the last 2 months in the Philippines and the connection was pretty bad and now while waiting in the Hong Kong terminal for my flight home I can I relate to some of the “accusation” mentioned in this thread:

    1. CPays has never dealt with spamming or blackhatting content scraping etc. furthermore we have taken the measures to prevent our affiliates from doing so by adding a section in our terms and conditions.

    2. The only changes made in the terms and conditions were the addition of the anti-spam/content theft etc…Section, and the negative balance policy – both in favor of our affiliates.

    3. 32Vegas Casino is owned by Crown Solution Gaming and has nothing to do with 32Red Casino. As for CPays stealing content :whoa: I would really like to see an example.

    4. Huh?

    5. CPays offer both Revenue Share and CPA to our affiliates. An affiliate can choose his/her desired commission type. Our revenue share is for lifetime.

    6. This makes a lot of sense obviously :rollover: all the companies in this business like to help one another even if it means losing some business here and there :blahblah: – this was of course me being a bit cynical :lookaroun

    7a. The affiliate wasn’t notified about the change? So how can the affiliate know there was a change?

    7b. I think no comment is needed on this one.

    7c. ?

    One final note: Yael is a she and no longer works in our company for over 2 years now…:nono:

    Oh and last but not least about the team of Russian immigrants doing the hacking and spamming for us – hehe…you are so on to us we tried to hide them behind the team of monkeys doing the content theft and scraping for 1000 bananas/month :1Dopey:

    To sum it all up I would like to say I didn’t mean for my reply to sound so extreme, but I think that (and I believe greek will support this statement) one should check the facts and investigate on his own to reveal the truth.

    Now before boarding my flight home if anyone wants to contact me personally feel free to leave your phone numbers (PM) names and good time to call (time zone you are in of course) and i will be able to contact you starting Tuesday (after i get some rest from the flight).

    One last thing before i go – Happy New Year and happy holidays everyone!

    All the best,
    Eilon
    CPays Manager
    manager (at) cpays.com
    http://www.cpays.com

    #720419
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    “CPays has never dealt with spamming”

    I’ll give you the benefit the doubt and assume that was a joke.

    #720420
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Hi all and happy holidays.

    Cpays is right. do your own homework. and after all that if you still feel confident in basing your future on this company … then you’ve dealt your own hand and deserve as such.

    nuff said.

    ….

    #720423
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Hey Cpays,

    1. Geez, that’s pretty interesting since your former employee showed us exactly how your team goes about it. Are you going to deny the team of Russians you have upstairs by the server room? So what do they do? Cmon, this is ridiculous, everybody in this forum knows that cpays goes out of it’s way to compete with affiliates.

    2. So let me ask you, have you ever changed the payment terms of any of the accounts (e.g. from CPA to revshare) without the affiliate’s approval? We know of accounts that were suddenly either denied payment, the deal changed (ie. lowered or from cpay to revshare) or whatever because cpays claims that “bonus abusers come through the site”. This retroactiving changing of terms based is commong practice in cpays.

    3. 32Vegas and 32Red: Well enuff said by me, let’s get another person in othe action: http://casinomeister.com/rogue/32Vegas.php

    4. Geez, I guess you didn’t know. You must be new at the company.

    5. So are you going to deny the fact that let’s say a high value player comes into one of your brands and the affiliate is on a life-time rev share plan, you will (a) do your best including calling the customer, offering crazy bonuses to switch them to another casino that cpays operates. By doing this, you don’t need to pay out the life-time rev share for that high-value player to the affiliate. This explains why rev-share deals simply don’t do well with cpays compared to other programs.

    6. You should let your affiliates know that they are getting zero and even let them know you are reselling your traffic to other casinos, even ones that the affiliate does not want to promote. Say an affiliate who is ethical sends you traffic and you resell this traffic to an unethical operator without the affiliates knowledge. Do you think the affiliate appreciates that?

    7. My mistake, I found out it was Eyal not Yael. Are you denying his existence?

    My apologies for grouping all Israeli companies together. My point is that a lot of the staff circulate among the companies due to proximity. Obviously some programs are better than others. Cpays is definitely not in the “better” category.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 31 total)