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  1. #1
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    Default Cpays - An insider reveals all

    This is a serious warning for anybody even considering working with them, for those who are working with them - watch out. After having bad experienes with them ourselves, we had a new colleague join us after previously working in this group and revealed the practices of this company.

    1. Competing with Affiliate Interests -

    The company is engaged in rampant spamming as most affiliates are well aware of this. They actively seek to compete with their affiliates and have an entire division looking not to support affiliates but to find out what they do and to replicate and copy their activities. Blackhatting, content scraping, spamming - whatever it takes to weed out affiliates is what their mantra is. As they claim they are a "marketing agency" themselves it is in their best interests to make as few payments as possible to affiliates - this is incentivized in their arrangements with the actual operators. The say they'll work with you but this is how they use you until they don't need you anymore when they decide to screw you. They'll go out of their way to suck up to top affiliates including sending huge prepay advances and sending them expensive gifts. Our colleague tells us of a big affiliate they have in Asia and another in Europe they are doing anything to bring back into the fold after screwing them over royally.

    2. T/c Manipulation -

    Cpays constantly change the t/c and the agreements with affiliates constantly. They'll use a bait and trap scheme where they try to bait new affiliates by offering a great deal and "trap" them later by changing the T/c. They'll claim that there are bonus abusers signing up, that their "client" has changed or that the account manager has changed. As many affiliates know, there are more problems with this group than anybody. There is now the issue with them changing the links for tracking. This is done as a ploy to cheat somewhat semi or non-active affiliates of their traffic as they are the ones unlikely to change the links. They do this from time to time to rip off traffic.

    3. Stealing of Content and Brands

    Not only content, affiliate earnings but also brands. Look at 32Vegas, this is esentially a knock off of 32Red and they've got other stuff in the pipeline. They keep coming up with new brands because after one brand has it's reputation destroyed, they'll just use another. You'll see a whole slew of new brands come out soon that they'll promote to existing players that affiliates will never see a penny of credit from.

    Affiliate content is stolen without hesitation and is promoted within the company.

    4. The affiliate gets screwed in their operation. As Playtech is the provider, players don't have an issue with their casinos, it's the affiliates that get screwed. When they start a new brand they really pump up with affiliates the new brand, once they get enough traffic to the brand they can then afford to screw the affiliates. Once enough players get to the casino, cross marketing to those players and stealing traffic from other brands is enough to support an acceptable number of new player inflows.

    5. Stealing players - they constantly direct market the players you bring in to one brand to their other brands without any credit given to affiliates. So say they pay you 35-40% CPA for a player , they will try whatever they can to get them to signup for another brand so they don't have to pay out lifetime earnings to affiliates. Their staff is incentivized to break deals where they have to pay out lifetime earnings. They prefer CPA deals over revshare.

    6. Reselling traffic without credit - Also if you send them traffic then you need to be aware of where this traffic goes, as they've got all sorts of remant ad resales which they resell to other operators for up to $500 CPA in which the original sender will get 0.

    7. Excuses -

    They are trained to have a bunch of canned excuses:

    a. When the agreement suddenly changes without the affiliates knowledge - this is b/c the previous account manager didn't pass the info on or that their computer systems have problems. They'll apologize and are very sincere, but the reality is that it was their original intent to deceive.

    b. Blaming Empire or any other company - club dice, carnival brands owned by Empire Online. They also have a terrible reputation but Cpays will blame Empire for anything and everything . This company is closely linked to Empire online as most know and they deal with the same group of scumbags that run a number of Playtech casinos.

    c. if they want to get on your good side they'll say that they've got a new account manager and the past problems are solved but the reality is that the same scumbags run this company and it will never change (see below). Don't believe that a new account manger will change anything about them.

    ______________________

    Most of the staff of Cpays that stay get either so sick of their practices and quit in disgust (that's how we recruited) or they are old veterans that are so used to cheating their affiliates it's become second nature. This is the reason why affiliates get so frustrated since they often deal with total novices.

    Henry Korchia runs the operation under Eyal and they will tell you that they were #1 in egaming review or some other industry award which was actually paid for. Most affiliates know they are a scam operation and I would urge affiliates to go elsewhere.

    If you do send them traffic accept no lower than $350 CPA (they pay nearly $500 cpa for some regions) and be aware of rev-share deals with them. If so ask for up front payment on a number of players, otherwise don't even work with them. IN fact if you are even remotely ethical, I would avoid them altogether since by working with them you are supporting a bunch of unethical bastards.
  2. #2
    Senior Member Greek39's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    I agree along with so many others!

    greek39
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    Default

    This is so sad... But something we all felt about this organization for a long time.

    Maybe we should have a decertification poll. For a LONG time, I have wondered (along with probably 90% of the board members here) why CPays is still certified at CAP. Does any of this bear any weight?? I would think so.
  4. #4
    Senior Member and Moderator bonustreak's Avatar
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    I would have to say CP should not be here on CAP. This is a shady place and they will not turn to a good program, just will not happen and there are other programs taking on some the she shady practices this program is using and still remaining certified. I understand it is important to have a company here at CAP for communication interest but this place has shown over and over they have no intentions of communicating and they certainly do not intend to change anything they do marketing wise.
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    The problem with Cpays compared to other programs is that you'll really don't know them unless you spend more time with them. They'll make good on a few things (make calls, send you an advance, smooth talk you at conferences) but they operate dirty on the backend (shifting players to different brands, spamming your listing). The result is that you'll make a bit of money with them but you won't get a good feeling from doing it in the long term. They're the quintessential "wolf in sheep's clothing" and will eat you alive while you're not aware of it.

    A lot of their staff circulate from CPartners, IOG, Tradal and other Israel-based operations. But more than the staff the core is just crooked lead by Yael and Henry.

    Though we stopped working with them, this forum is valuable for affiliates. They don't do the things worthy of decertification - ie. not paying affiliates, cheating players but they do the things that are simply unethical and counterproductive to their partners - spamming, blackhatting, stealing traffic etc. etc.

    I simply want people to be aware of the practices before they consider committing more with them and realize the type of company this is. My colleague has told me a lot more even more serious stuff they do which we won't get into.
  6. #6
    Moderator - Big Kahuna Dominique's Avatar
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    I thought Yael left years ago.

    I am also not aware of crossing personell with CPartners, IOG, Tradal and other Israel-based operations?

    Although Tradal would be logical....
    dominique




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    Nope he's still there, though there may be several Yaels. Yael runs the show there all right, he just doesn't show up.

    As for crossing personnel, what I meant is that a lot of the staff circulate among these companies. They are competitors but they recruit from one another, so I've experienced the same manager who gets fired from Cpartners go to cpays, then quits then ends up at IOG and then ending up at Tradal. All at the same time passing affiliate info and intelligence along.

    Tradal is a partner there though with today's announcement of PartyGaming acquiring EOL this may no longer be the case.

    The biggest problem with the Israeli firms is that "confidential" information from one company tends to easily move on the the next company and that b/c the staff move around, their unscrupulous practices tend to also circulate. These employees have base salaries that are not high (about $1-$1.5K/mo) so they need to make it up in incentive bonuses and this means that stolen data and unscrupulous business practices are encouraged. These same employees are also affiliate marketers on the side for other companies in the industry - all fuelled by stolen data caused by low salaries.

    I can't say the people who work there are bad, after all my colleague we recruited used to work there, it's just that the environment there breeds a certain type and it's highly encouraged by their management.

    One thing I forgot to mention is how they do their spamming and hacking. In Israel there are many Russian immigrants, Cpays hires a division of Russian hackers/spammers who are PhD level - the best around. Their only job is to figure out (at $1k / mo) how to blackhat and compete with affiliates. It's starting to be common practice with the Israeli marketing agencies.
    Last edited by tcweb; 12-29-2006 at 02:41 PM. Reason: Update of info
  8. #8
    Senior Member Greek39's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    I agree 100% tcweb and can prove some of it. I often refer to them as the Mediterranean triangle. Your post reinforces what I logged over the past year.

    greek39
  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dominique
    I thought Yael left years ago.

    I am also not aware of crossing personell with CPartners, IOG, Tradal and other Israel-based operations?

    Although Tradal would be logical....
    What other programs operate from Israel? Gpromo...as far as I know.
    I guess we need a list; Not to be discriminating, just to look out for.
    Cheers
    Led

    Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great. - Mark Twain

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  10. #10
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    Not all programs from Israel are bad. This type of discrimination is just as bad as racism.

    One example of a stellar program from this region is Bright Share. You cannot possibly have a nicer staff to work with.

    But I do agree some stuff with Casino Pays does not add up.
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